Apple Catalina - printer problems

[Dave2002]

I was so pleased that converting to Catalina didn't seem to introduce any major problems, other than making a version of Office unusable. Today I tried to print some documents. After several attempts - and absolutely zilch output - I thought to check whether Epson printers are likely to have any problems. I found a page indicating that new drivers are almost certain to be required, and it's not clear that our printer has such a driver, either now, or will ever have one.

I did also find a page suggesting one solution to this problem is to "downgrade" Catalina back to Mojave, but the suggestion that this might be long and tedious is a dire warning.

We have ways round this, but it really is a total pain. High Sierra seems to be the last version I can be fairly sure that things still work on - as Apple made it difficult for me to migrate to Mojave - so I've never tested that OS version.

[Dave2002]

I assumed that the problem was a driver problem, for Word, but in fact it might not only be that, but rather a problem which affects other software as well. I was unable to print a document produced using OpenOffice, so I think Epson haven't got round to producing a driver for Catalina for the XP-332 or XP-335 models (really the same) yet.

I was able to get round this today by switching to a Brother laser printer, which we also have, and which seems to have working drivers, but these issues re Catalina really are a pain. It's now a significant part of a year since Apple released Catalina, and they seem to have caused unecessary problems for many by doing so, without - IMO - adequate care. It's only because we have a collection of machines and software that we are able to cope with this, though I am disappointed with some of the other issues - such as security blocks on VST and other plugins for Logic Pro X. Sure, I don't want our machines trashed by malware, but many of those pieces of software were already working in earlier versions, so if there were problems with malware I expect we'd have been hit by now.

I also don't particularly want to favour Microsoft by having to buy new versions of MS Office, because the old ones are now incompatible with Catalina. For the time being I will probably work round that by using versions which still work on their respective older - and/or not upgraded - machines.

It's not only Apple, of course - Epson could have produced new drivers by now, but perhaps they think they can contribute to the world's landfill resources by effectively blocking our printer which isn't too old

Companies which do this should be called out.

[Simon Biazeck]

I assumed that the problem was a driver problem, for Word, but in fact it might not only be that, but rather a problem which affects other software as well. I was unable to print a document produced using OpenOffice, so I think Epson haven't got round to producing a driver for Catalina for the XP-332 or XP-335 models (really the same) yet.

I was able to get round this today by switching to a Brother laser printer, which we also have, and which seems to have working drivers, but these issues re Catalina really are a pain. It's now a significant part of a year since Apple released Catalina, and they seem to have caused unecessary problems for many by doing so, without - IMO - adequate care. It's only because we have a collection of machines and software that we are able to cope with this, though I am disappointed with some of the other issues - such as security blocks on VST and other plugins for Logic Pro X. Sure, I don't want our machines trashed by malware, but many of those pieces of software were already working in earlier versions, so if there were problems with malware I expect we'd have been hit by now.

I also don't particularly want to favour Microsoft by having to buy new versions of MS Office, because the old ones are now incompatible with Catalina. For the time being I will probably work round that by using versions which still work on their respective older - and/or not upgraded - machines.

It's not only Apple, of course - Epson could have produced new drivers by now, but perhaps they think they can contribute to the world's landfill resources by effectively blocking our printer which isn't too old

Companies which do this should be called out.

I am absolute agreement with you on this. I lost the use of a perfectly good printer a few years ago. Now programmes vital for my typesetting are not compatible and I cannot open certain files, e.g. the gabc files on this site: https://gregobase.selapa.net/chant.php?id=6408

I am fast becoming tired of this and would consider an entirely new operating system when I am due a hardware upgrade, providing I am sure that my programmes will work. I do not have an iPhone. All suggestions welcome!

SB.

[Dave2002]

I am absolute agreement with you on this. I lost the use of a perfectly good printer a few years ago. Now programmes vital for my typesetting are not compatible and I cannot open certain files, e.g. the gabc files on this site: https://gregobase.selapa.net/chant.php?id=6408

I am fast becoming tired of this and would consider an entirely new operating system when I am due a hardware upgrade, providing I am sure that my programmes will work. I do not have an iPhone. All suggestions welcome!

I'm not sure that I can help re new operating systems. I left Windows years ago, and that was a good move, despite some later problems. I see nothing in Windows that would really persuade me to go back. Perhaps there is still some specialist software which works best on a Windows platform, but if there were the case and important, I'd suggest buying a machine to match. Otherwise, despite my most recent complaint - and yes - they are complaints about Apple, I would probably still buy a new machine with MacOS.

I have tried to see if any of my Office files work with Open Office, or other software I have installed. I can generate new files quite easily with either OpenOffice or the Apple offerings such as Keynote for presentations. I have never liked Numbers. Some of the presentation files I have open up in OpenOffice, but they don't really work too well, and in fact Keynote seems to do a better job of dealing with those, though I think not as good as a genuine version of PowerPoint. I'm not sure yet about how well older spreadsheet files open up in OpenOffice, or Numbers - in which case I'd have to try to figure out how that program really works. As I just wrote, I never really liked that one.

I understand Apple's desire to move software to 64 bit, but it seems very happy to do that and at the same time cause irritation for customers. If they had even thought to create a compatible mode for older software that might have been much more helpful than the kick in the teeth they have delivered with Catalina. A considerable number of virtual instruments which I have previously installed for Logic (and other DAWs) are now incompatible, and have been moved or flagged as such. Yet we know that the code was working with previous program versions. As so often in the past, Apple has adopted a high handed approach, and assumes it knows better than end users what they really want, and how to achieve whatever that is.

I have never quite managed to dedicate a machine to Linux, though I have run several versions in the past. I think it's very good for some things, but I doubt that many people will prefer it either to Windows or MacOS.

[Simon Biazeck]

I'm not sure that I can help re new operating systems. I left Windows years ago, and that was a good move, despite some later problems. I see nothing in Windows that would really persuade me to go back. Perhaps there is still some specialist software which works best on a Windows platform, but if there were the case and important, I'd suggest buying a machine to match. Otherwise, despite my most recent complaint - and yes - they are complaints about Apple, I would probably still buy a new machine with MacOS.

I have tried to see if any of my Office files work with Open Office, or other software I have installed. I can generate new files quite easily with either OpenOffice or the Apple offerings such as Keynote for presentations. I have never liked Numbers. Some of the presentation files I have open up in OpenOffice, but they don't really work too well, and in fact Keynote seems to do a better job of dealing with those, though I think not as good as a genuine version of PowerPoint. I'm not sure yet about how well older spreadsheet files open up in OpenOffice, or Numbers - in which case I'd have to try to figure out how that program really works. As I just wrote, I never really liked that one.

I understand Apple's desire to move software to 64 bit, but it seems very happy to do that and at the same time cause irritation for customers. If they had even thought to create a compatible mode for older software that might have been much more helpful than the kick in the teeth they have delivered with Catalina. A considerable number of virtual instruments which I have previously installed for Logic (and other DAWs) are now incompatible, and have been moved or flagged as such. Yet we know that the code was working with previous program versions. As so often in the past, Apple has adopted a high handed approach, and assumes it knows better than end users what they really want, and how to achieve whatever that is.

I have never quite managed to dedicate a machine to Linux, though I have run several versions in the past. I think it's very good for some things, but I doubt that many people will prefer it either to Windows or MacOS.

Thanks!!

[Frances_iom]

...

Companies which do this should be called out.

No people should stop buying/licencing their products - once you are dependent on a single company you are at their mercy + if American, almost certain price gouging (see also Big Pharma)

[Dave2002]

No people should stop buying/licencing their products - once you are dependent on a single company you are at their mercy + if American, almost certain price gouging (see also Big Pharma)

That is easier said than done, I think. What do you suggest?

[Frances_iom]

That is easier said than done, I think. What do you suggest?

depends very much what you are using the machine for - using open source software (esp if packaged to run under different O/Ss) offers some degree of freedom from single supply.

[Dave2002]

depends very much what you are using the machine for - using open source software (esp if packaged to run under different O/Ss) offers some degree of freedom from single supply.

Indeed, but the machine itself is likely to have been made and supplied by companies one maybe does not approve of. Globalisation?

Some open source software is very good, some is truly cross platform, but some is very noticeably infererior to commercial equivalents.

[Frances_iom]

Apple or rather its suppliers are not exactly known for good practice wrt labour.
At the low end the RaspberryPi are built in Wales - no doubt using 'slave' Welsh labour ? but the rest are mostly assembled in SE Asia using components that for those as bought in PC-world sheds are the lowest spec that will allow a machine to survive the warranty period through to the much better professional offerings of Lenovo Dell etc aimed at the business end with prices to match - Apple is these days aimed at a market that is mostly fashion driven and is poor value for the money expended.

[Dave2002]

Apple or rather its suppliers are not exactly known for good practice wrt labour.
Apple is these days aimed at a market that is mostly fashion driven and is poor value for the money expended.

Re Apple and fashion, that is a view which has been put forward several times over the last few decades. I can't agree completely. Right now I think some hardware is too expensive, but some is not, and possibly better made than many PCs. The relative merits change with economic circumstances around the world.

What I do find amazing is that Apple's profits now come mainly from phones - with IMO a pretty poor "OS", which is now influencing the much smaller part of Apple's enterprise - computer hardware. I can't enthuse over PCs either, and although Gates has now changed and become a considerate philanthropist, PCs and Windows have been pretty poor too for around 30 or so years.

There is some good software from Apple - or at least better than its competitors, and there is also some rather bad software. The move to 64 bit software is probably a good thing - overall - but has unfortunate knock on effects right now. Moving away from some of the storage systems has also been a good thing, but the move towards cloud computing - which several big companies follow - Amazon, Apple, Microsoft - has dangers which many people seem to be unaware of, or care about.

Cloud computing could be a good thing for some situations, but shifting all data out of control of end users is very dangerous, IMO.

I guess "it's all capitalism, innit?"! Maybe not quite - I think there are political elements too, which may be closely related to capitalism, but not absolutely so.

[Anastasius]

Well, my 'old' iMac of 11 years is still going strong. As is my wife's of 12 years old. Which speaks volumes for the actual build quality. But we have seen the writing on the wall as we're getting very tired of 'this browser works with this site bit with that one'...'this browser works with lloyds bank..this one doesn't'. There will come a point in time where none of our browsers will work with 'modern' websites. So we've started to bite the bullet and my shiny new 27" iMac arrives tomorrow and, if the old one is anything to go by, this one will see me out.

But Dave2002, your points re printers etc are well made and I shall watch developments. Fortunately there is nothing that I am wedded to software wise. We do have two printers so will have to see. Anyway, that will all have to wait as I've got more important things to do than open up a new box aka can of worms. Just wanted to take advantage of the 0% finance.

[richardfinegold]

I actually just bought a MacAir 2 days ago, and my current Brothers Printer is about 3 years old, reading the initial post made me paranoid because I had not yet tried to print anything, but I seemed to be able to add the printer without an issue. What a pain these considerations are

[Dave2002]

But Dave2002, your points re printers etc are well made and I shall watch developments. Fortunately there is nothing that I am wedded to software wise. We do have two printers so will have to see. Anyway, that will all have to wait as I've got more important things to do than open up a new box aka can of worms. Just wanted to take advantage of the 0% finance.

I hope that your new iMac lives up to expectations, and doesn't give major problems. I really do fancy having a new one, and I expect that they are actually rather good.

In my case the printer issue was eventually solved, though it was a nuisance and caused difficulties for weeks before I contacted the Epson support team, and then it took some time to get get it sorted, though less than an hour. If the Epson had been the only printer we have, that would have been very painful, or if the computer had been a desktop machine, but as a portable laptop I was able to take it round to the printer room and plug it into the Brother laser printer when I really needed to. Otherwise I had to send the files to other machines, which still had working drivers and print from those.

Even though I don't like Microsoft in general, I am still very disappointed that Apple managed to render my Office 2011 unusable. I have tried to use other software - Apple's own Numbers, Keynote, Pages, or Open Office for some files, and while they may give an approximation to what is required sometimes, they are not fully compatible. For example, some Powerpoint slide shows are missing individual slides, and Excel compatibility is significantly poorer than between different versions of Microsoft Excel. Mostly I'm not bothered about Word - I often prefer Open Ofice in any case.

There are other aspects of Catalina which are a nuisance too. Some software instruments/synthesisers etc. which were working with Logic Pro X are now blocked or non-functioning. Some musicians would find that a pain I think. Over time I expect that all the software should converge back to some form of stability - or at least there shouldn't be an obvious technical reason for future disruption, as 64 bit software should be capable of a very considerable amount of future proofing, though that unfortunately doesn't mean that Apple or other firms won't deliberately throw more spanners in the works if they think it'll help their bottom lines. Some firms seem genuinely interested in providing better customer service, while other appear to show customers as suckers to be fleeced at every opportunity.

Overall Apple isn't too bad, but the Catalina update does seem to have caused problems which will cause difficulties for some people who already had older versions of software, and not everyone can afford to, or will want to reach into their pockets, to pull out their wallets to buy newer versions either of software or hardware.

I'd be really interested to know how the new iMac performs - whether it is clearly much faster than you are used to (I expect it will be) and also what software you manage to run on it.

[Dave2002]

I actually just bought a MacAir 2 days ago, and my current Brothers Printer is about 3 years old, reading the initial post made me paranoid because I had not yet tried to print anything, but I seemed to be able to add the printer without an issue. What a pain these considerations are

Good luck with that. I can't remember now whether the Brother laser printer "just worked", or if I had to install a new driver, but our Brother printer didn't cause a major problem. Some printer manufacturers seem to manage the drivers better than others. I suspect you won't have any difficulties.