Yet another privacy technical problem - partly due to "Lockdown" (aka **** Apple!)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Dave2002
    Full Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 18034

    Yet another privacy technical problem - partly due to "Lockdown" (aka **** Apple!)

    The current lockdown has highlighted a number of IT and privacy issues. These will be affecting organisations, and in some cases individuals. I'm guessing that the more clued up organisations will have protocols to control data, and keep it private and secure.

    Other organisations may now be adopting less private, or less secure methods simply in order to get things done.

    I have noted a few over the last month or two, but one which I was asked to solve has come to hit me today.

    Someone is running a mailing list for a society with around 150 members. It is desired to send out newsletters and information. The society is run by private volunteers, who use their own computers. There is an Excel data base with member details - most of which are irrelevant for the particular task - the only thing which is important right now is the list of email ids. Let us assume that the requirements of the GDPR are met, and that there is a Data Controller, so at least part of the compliance regime is being handled correctly.

    The original Excel spreadsheet was on Windows based PCs. With considerable effort a file containing only the emails has been generated. What is now required is to send out the newsletter to the people with those emails - but the person who is the volunteer to do the newsletter has an Apple Macbook.

    Apple - in its usual near infinite wisdom - seems only to allow a bulk import of new email ids into one address book. It doesn't seem possible to import new email ids into a sub group, or a new group. It is possible to set up a new group, but only if all the email contacts are imported into the address book. This is highly undesirable - all of those ids should be kept separate from contacts which are personal to the volunteer, and preferably in completely separate computer user accounts.

    OK - so we had another idea. Set up a new account on the computer, with (hopefully) a new address book. This is where it gets stuffed. After a while, and security setting up, and codes sent from Apple, a new account is set up specifically for the external organisation. Now open the Contacts - (address book) - phew - it's empty - so now we can import from the file with the emails on. Agggggghhhhhhhh - wait - now **** Apple has connected the new account with the old one, so started populating the Contacts book with email ids from the volunteer user. Absolutely not what was wanted.

    Now wondering whether it would actually be easier to use Linux, and just use basic mail, which IIRC can work with a text file containing all the email ids, and give up on Apple altogether for this purpose. That would only - I think and hope - require that the email list file be kept secure and private, which would be relatively simple.

    This "feature" of so-called "easy to use" Apple software is really poor.

    I'd now have to show the volunteer how to use enough Linux to be able to transfer the required documents to that machine (probably the same machine, running Linux) and then to do the mass mailout in that system. This is just making things more complicated ... ah well.

    Maybe pigeons would be the answer.
  • cmr_for3
    Full Member
    • Nov 2015
    • 286

    #2
    Never been an Apple fan. I don't understand why Apple automatically connected the new user account with the old one. Baffling. I work with data so you have sympathies. I'm not a linux user, but the idea you have hit upon does seem the best bet. Would a webmail client be a solution?

    Good luck!

    Comment

    • Frances_iom
      Full Member
      • Mar 2007
      • 2415

      #3
      Get hold of an old windoze desktop(almost anything from a Pentium onwards so can be 15yrs old or more) and install MINT on the complete disk - then bring up Thunderbird email system and use this purely for running the Society database (the easiest mode is via a DVD but a net install is ok unless your connection speeds are very slow). If you have a spare hard drive (eg 160 GB would be fine) then install this. Macs are generally a right pain as Apple is often non-standard in its approaches. Laptops can be awkward but Lenovo's esp the older X series and older T61 type work very well and will be more than adequate - many of the older consumer grade machines from the period when leadfree solder was introduced can be flakely as the heating cycle stresses the soldered connections and the then leadfree unlike the older lead solder could not 'stretch' and failed with dry joints.

      An additional thought - I've been very pleasantly surprised how very usable the the latest version of Rasbian based on Debian10 (aka Buster) is - just buy a RPi 3 or 4 and use a devoted usb hard drive - major problem is usually getting a suitable 5V supply capable of over 2A as most used for charging tablets etc seem limited to less than 2 amp but try the MagPi shop or the Raspberry Pi official website - you may need to update the software respository lists to avoid some of the limitations of finding the full fat versions of some lite versions of software
      Last edited by Frances_iom; 23-05-20, 07:40.

      Comment

      • MrGongGong
        Full Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 18357

        #4
        Originally posted by cmr_for3 View Post
        Never been an Apple fan. I don't understand why Apple automatically connected the new user account with the old one. Baffling. I work with data so you have sympathies. I'm not a linux user, but the idea you have hit upon does seem the best bet. Would a webmail client be a solution?

        Good luck!
        I'm assuming that is because you are using Mac Mail
        Great machines but lousy software

        I use Thunderbird on several Mac machines... works fine and doesn't assume you want to connect everything together in one place
        Personally I find it useful to have separate accounts for the offshore money laundering and assassination businesses







        (hi there GCHQ how's the weather in Cheltenham?)

        Comment

        • Dave2002
          Full Member
          • Dec 2010
          • 18034

          #5
          Originally posted by Frances_iom View Post
          Get hold of an old windoze desktop(almost anything from a Pentium onwards so can be 15yrs old or more) and install MINT on the complete disk - then bring up Thunderbird email system and use this purely for running the Society database (the easiest mode is via a DVD but a net install is ok unless your connection speeds are very slow). If you have a spare hard drive (eg 160 GB would be fine) then install this. Macs are generally a right pain as Apple is often non-standard in its approaches. Laptops can be awkward but Lenovo's esp the older X series and older T61 type work very well and will be more than adequate - many of the older consumer grade machines from the period when leadfree solder was introduced can be flakely as the heating cycle stresses the soldered connections and the then leadfree unlike the older lead solder could not 'stretch' and failed with dry joints.

          An additional thought - I've been very pleasantly surprised how very usable the the latest version of Rasbian based on Debian10 (aka Buster) is - just buy a RPi 3 or 4 and use a devoted usb hard drive - major problem is usually getting a suitable 5V supply capable of over 2A as most used for charging tablets etc seem limited to less than 2 amp but try the MagPi shop or the Raspberry Pi official website - you may need to update the software respository lists to avoid some of the limitations of finding the full fat versions of some lite versions of software
          Thanks for this suggestion. Perhaps I am "suffering" from ESP, as I'd already put in motion tests of Thunderbird - see http://www.for3.org/forums/showthrea...891#post793891 but that has only just been posted.

          I agree with just about everything you have written here. I don't dislike everything about Apple, but some of the assumptions which the company makes about what end users want are just plain wrong. I don't know whether you go to the cinema, but the advert about "you have more data on your phone than ...." drives me nuts. Firstly it's not correct in my case, as I don't have a smart phone with lots of my data on, and secondly, why should I trust Apple, a company with servers based in the USA, more than my own pocket notebook? If I want to protect my data I keep it secure, and I don't go sending it over networks or to third party storage systems.

          On the face of it Apple does appear to be "more" trustworthy than some other companies, but that does not mean that it always will be, or that the data it has acquired can't be misused by others. If it never gets "our" data in the first place, then that data cannot be misused.

          Comment

          • Beresford
            Full Member
            • Apr 2012
            • 557

            #6
            Presumably you have set "Do Not Share Contacts" - that's on an iPad.

            I use Opera Mail, which works on a PC and Mac. Development stopped a few years ago, so no updates , when the Opera browser was bought by the Chinese.
            It is small and simple, but does what I want, including POP3 to download emails, and the other protocol (Imap?) for sharing them on multiple pc's.
            Setting up groups is slightly obscure, but obvious in retrospect. Can import email addresses in 3 formats.

            Macworld is your ultimate guide to Apple's product universe, explaining what's new, what's best and how to make the most out of the products you love.

            Comment

            • Serial_Apologist
              Full Member
              • Dec 2010
              • 37812

              #7
              Originally posted by Dave2002 View Post
              Thanks for this suggestion. Perhaps I am "suffering" from ESP, as I'd already put in motion tests of Thunderbird - see http://www.for3.org/forums/showthrea...891#post793891 but that has only just been posted.

              I agree with just about everything you have written here. I don't dislike everything about Apple, but some of the assumptions which the company makes about what end users want are just plain wrong. I don't know whether you go to the cinema, but the advert about "you have more data on your phone than ...." drives me nuts. Firstly it's not correct in my case, as I don't have a smart phone with lots of my data on, and secondly, why should I trust Apple, a company with servers based in the USA, more than my own pocket notebook? If I want to protect my data I keep it secure, and I don't go sending it over networks or to third party storage systems.

              On the face of it Apple does appear to be "more" trustworthy than some other companies, but that does not mean that it always will be, or that the data it has acquired can't be misused by others. If it never gets "our" data in the first place, then that data cannot be misused.
              Can't false advertising claims be taken up with the Trades Dscription people? There seems to be a lot of it around at the moment - claims for example by "a well-known" insurer" on a TV ad that all claims are met??

              Comment

              • MrGongGong
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 18357

                #8
                Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
                Can't false advertising claims be taken up with the Trades Dscription people? There seems to be a lot of it around at the moment - claims for example by "a well-known" insurer" on a TV ad that all claims are met??
                "Trades Description" ??

                Vegan "cheese"
                Homepoathy

                and so on

                Comment

                • Dave2002
                  Full Member
                  • Dec 2010
                  • 18034

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Beresford View Post
                  Presumably you have set "Do Not Share Contacts" - that's on an iPad.
                  That sounds like a message from Planet Zog - exactly the sort of thing I dislike about Apple. I had no idea there was/such a setting, though now you have mentioned it, I can’t find it on my iPad anyway. I also work on other Apple machines, so no idea what happens there. OK - Apple wants me to use a cloud - their cloud - and to have all my data shared with them. I just don’t want to play that game, though several times I have suspected Apple has changed settings on my kit. I know some people like it - keep everything in sync, and up to date, but I don’t. One person I know had her system trashed because she allowed Apple to do automatic updates, and it took a day to fix afterwards.

                  Comment

                  • Beresford
                    Full Member
                    • Apr 2012
                    • 557

                    #10
                    Vegan "cheese" - What else do you call it? Like hoover or sellotape.
                    Homeopathy - As distinct from allopathy - quite accurate description of what it is, rather than what it does.

                    Comment

                    • Beresford
                      Full Member
                      • Apr 2012
                      • 557

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Dave2002 View Post
                      That sounds like a message from Planet Zog - exactly the sort of thing I dislike about Apple. I had no idea there was/such a setting, though now you have mentioned it, I can’t find it on my iPad anyway. .
                      Quite. I think it is called "Contacts Found in Email" in the Mail settings. If ON, I suspect it adds all the received email addresses to your contact list in the cloud, then spreads them to all your Apple devices and accounts, whether you like it or not. And you have to allow Mail to access the cloud, otherwise you don't get any emails on your Apple mail account.

                      The thing that annoyed me most about Apple software (hardware is great), apart from iTunes and iCloud, is that it won't display rtf (rich text) files properly, a format that has been used since 1987.

                      Comment

                      • MrGongGong
                        Full Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 18357

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Beresford View Post
                        Vegan "cheese" - What else do you call it? Like hoover or sellotape.
                        Homeopathy - As distinct from allopathy - quite accurate description of what it is, rather than what it does.
                        Cheese is made from milk... vegan "cheese" might be tasty (some is) but it's not CHEESE imv
                        Homoeopathic "remedies" contain NO molecules of the material on the label.... but if you want i've got a fine bottle of Homeopathic Talisker I can send you for £20 + postage

                        Comment

                        • Beresford
                          Full Member
                          • Apr 2012
                          • 557

                          #13
                          So what would YOU call the food formerly known as vegan cheese?

                          I have found homeopathic(?) calendula lotion very good for cuts and abrasions. Not sure about the rest, but I would try it before passing judgement.
                          Maybe you could find inspiration from a dram of your special Talisker?

                          Comment

                          • Bryn
                            Banned
                            • Mar 2007
                            • 24688

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Beresford View Post
                            So what would YOU call the food formerly known as vegan cheese? . . .
                            In honour of Brian, vegan peace?

                            Comment

                            • Cockney Sparrow
                              Full Member
                              • Jan 2014
                              • 2290

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Beresford View Post
                              So what would YOU call the food formerly known as vegan cheese?

                              I have found homeopathic(?) calendula lotion very good for cuts and abrasions.
                              As long as its beeswax based (Weleda) I find the same, and have for years. I'm not sure about the molecules - it might be the beeswax/base?

                              In my 20's I experienced hoarseness at the end of choir rehearsals. It took some time to get an appointment, and I got a prescription. I didn't over dwell on the remedy (but who knows what my subconscious was doing?) . In any case, the problem went away at the same time as I took the remedy.

                              I still don't know, but my view is that it was probably less detrimental than any other allopathic procedure / doing nothing (Medic: it'll get better or it will get worse - probably - so come back again after......). BTW I saw a homeopathic ENT specialist so I got a physical examination - I wouldn't suggest taking a remedy for anything which might be serious and need a proper investigation from allopathic medicine (i.e. as 99.9% of medics are today) unless you can find a mainstream specialist who will also practise homeopathy.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X