Bass recorder simulation - audacity or guitar pitch shifter

[Dave2002]

I have suggested this before, and indeed tried it. "Real" recorder enthusiasts will throw up their hands in horror, no doubt, but actually if bass recorder parts are played on a treble, and recorded (say into Audacity), the pitch shift feature - down 12 semitones - will do a decent enough job of getting something which sounds really rather like a "real" instrument. An alternative is to use a guitar pitch shifter, which may also give a decent enough rendition, and can be played live if suitable microphone/amplifier/loudspeaker combination is used. If one doesn't mind the octave doubling on the alto, this can be done in real time, otherwise a track can be laid down, and replayed later. I have tested out guitar pitch shifters for this purpose, and some do work quite well.

It is actually quite a lot easier for people who haven't tried a bass recorder as the physical instruments do seem to me quite a lot trickier. My experience with the physical ones is limited, but growing. They are relatively unwieldy, both in terms of weight and size, and also in terms of fingering agility.

One can of course, also simulate contrabass and subcontrabass instruments in the same way. It's doubtful whether the inverse process of raising the pitch would be useful. There may be someone out there who can play the Irish Washerwoman on a bass instrument as fast as I can on a descant, but I doubt that many people would be able to do so - or would even want to try.

The same techniques can be used to simulate a tenor on a descant recorder, though tenor recorders are more manageable with considerable practice.

[MrGongGong]

Why ?

[Braunschlag]

Why not?:)

[Dave2002]

Why?

Cost is a significant factor, as well as ease of learning. Soprano and treble recorders are affordable, and even some plastic models are really quite decent.

This page has some comments on tenor recorders - http://www.saundersrecorders.com/recqual.htm

The other recorders are big, costly and generally not suitable for beginners. If you want to play the sort of music that works better on the descant recorder a tenor is a possibility but there are drawbacks. The tenor is not easy to handle, even for an experienced player. If you are of advancing years, are small or have joint problems (particularly all three factors combined) I strongly advise against attempting the tenor recorder. It is almost inevitable that you will have trouble covering the holes and suffer discomfort, if not real pain, in your hands. Solutions like keys are not so effective as you might expect. I have posted advanced comments on tenor recorders here.

Tenor recorders are big compared to higher pitched models, and of course bass, contrabass and subcontrabass recorders are significantly bigger and more costly. Even the cheapest of these larger recorders are relatively more expensive.

Some people may try larger recorders, and start to enjoy them, and gain greater facility on them, while others may try, but then decide not to proceed further.

Some people want to play with others, for example in recorder consorts or recorder orchestras, but these are very specialised and niche activities.

Some may wish to explore the music for the lower pitched instruments, but don't wish to either invest in expensive instruments (which will very probably sound significantly better) or invest the time required to acquire sufficient proficiency with them. The suggestions given in msg 1 may give such people a way forward which they might not otherwise have thought of.

Why not?

Indeed!

There might be some technical issues - for example with using guitar pitch shifters. Not everyone will be able to make this work, but it's really not too difficult.
Similarly, with making recordings with recording tools such as Audacity or other DAWs - with a bit of effort these can be made to work quite reliably. Technophobes may find these difficult.

[Richard Barrett]

There might be some technical issues - for example with using guitar pitch shifters. Not everyone will be able to make this work, but it's really not too difficult.
Similarly, with making recordings with recording tools such as Audacity or other DAWs - with a bit of effort these can be made to work quite reliably. Technophobes may find these difficult.

A recorder unlike an electric guitar makes a distinct sound of its own (obviously) so if you put it through a pitch shifter you will hear both the original and the shifted pitch, which is quite different from only hearing the latter. Apart from which, "exploring the music for lower pitched instruments" - what music is that, actually? There's hardly any solo music for tenor or bass recorder, let alone lower instruments, and what does exist is likely to be contemporary music which is not only lower in pitch but also explores specific characteristics of the low instruments (in terms of articulation, for example) in a way that can't be emulated by higher ones. It does all seem a bit pointless to me.

[Dave2002]

It may indeed be pointless, but that’s where I am now. I could write that playing these recorders is pointless, and I really only got back into this because I wanted to play with a few others. However, I only do this occasionally, and I find that “a bit pointless” - but it is quite fun and a challenge of a sort.

Re the pitch shifters, if one is trying to generate shifted sounds they can work directly into a computer, and the setting does not have to include the original sound. That does mean that it will only work, however, if a track is laid down for later use, or the player is not in the same room as those who might want to listen to the results without also hearing the original.

There are several YouTube videos of recorder players (and others) multi-tracking, in which a single player generates all the lines of polyphonic music. The techniques mentioned here would allow some without a lot of resources to do that, without having to acquire (buy, borrow or steal) an instrument (possibly expensive), or to learn how to play such.

Lots of things and activities are pointless. I have just increased the options and added to the variety.

[Old Grumpy]

Lots of things and activities are pointless. I have just increased the options and added to the variety.

Dave, I like your style!

OG