LMS on Pi

[cmr_for3]

Hi all

I'm hoping to obtain a pre built raspberry pi with a dac in. It has Volumio already installed but I'd rather put Logitech Media Server on it Any tips on the best way to go about this? Google gives a myriad of options. I'd like to also add wifi can this be done via a dongle? google seems to indicate so...

Any answers appreciated!

[Dave2002]

No promises - and some don't like this site, but you could look here - https://theartofsound.net/forum/sear...archid=3332022

[johnb]

Hi all

I'm hoping to obtain a pre built raspberry pi with a dac in. It has Volumio already installed but I'd rather put Logitech Media Server on it Any tips on the best way to go about this? Google gives a myriad of options. I'd like to also add wifi can this be done via a dongle? google seems to indicate so...

I have just started using a pre-built Raspberry Pi based player for LMS (the Allo Digione Signature), so I am not an expert on Rasp Pi but I have been using LMS for the last seven years or so and am a great enthusiast for it both on the grounds of flexibility and for the extremely good interface with iPeng on iPad or Orange Squeeze, etc on Android.

I was looking round for a replacement of the Touch player and considered the likes of the Metrum Ambre (£1k) and other quite expensive boxes but in the end plumped for the Allo Digione Signature.

There are quite a few matters rolled up in that question so let's break them down a little.

You want to use LMS.

Do you want to use the rasp pi as a player (with your music, etc) stored on a PC, etc elsewhere?

Do you want to use the rasp pi as a LMS server?

Or both?

- Distribution to use (e.g. Volumio, etc, etc)
If you want to use Logitech Media Server the obvious choice is piCorePlayer. A Rasp Pi running piCorePlayer can be used as a Squeezebox player (using the same Squeezelite that is used in many expensive streamer boxes), can be used as an LMS server or can be used as both a player and server together. piCorePlayer is actively maintained and actively supported (via the Slimdevices forum), and is designed to do one job and by all reports it does that job very well indeed.

I've used the slimdevices forum for many years and the people there are very helpful and are often amazingly patient. Indeed, if you created a thread in the "3rd Party Hardware" section explaining exactly what you are looking to do you will get many suggestions from which you can pick and choose

Links:
piCorePlayer website: https://www.picoreplayer.org/main_about.shtml
piCorePlayer support thread on Logitech slimdevices forum: https://forums.slimdevices.com/showt...313#post949313
3rd Party Hardward section in the slimdevices forum: https://forums.slimdevices.com/forum...Party-Hardware

I'll reply about rasp pi hardware after lunch.

Hardware:
There are various options for Rasp Pi

[cmr_for3]

No promises - and some don't like this site, but you could look here - https://theartofsound.net/forum/sear...archid=3332022

Thanks Dave I shall take a look.

[cmr_for3]

I have just started using a pre-built Raspberry Pi based player for LMS (the Allo Digione Signature), so I am not an expert on Rasp Pi but I have been using LMS for the last seven years or so and am a great enthusiast for it both on the grounds of flexibility and for the extremely good interface with iPeng on iPad or Orange Squeeze, etc on Android.

I was looking round for a replacement of the Touch player and considered the likes of the Metrum Ambre (£1k) and other quite expensive boxes but in the end plumped for the Allo Digione Signature.

There are quite a few matters rolled up in that question so let's break them down a little.

You want to use LMS.

Do you want to use the rasp pi as a player (with your music, etc) stored on a PC, etc elsewhere?

Do you want to use the rasp pi as a LMS server?

Or both?

- Distribution to use (e.g. Volumio, etc, etc)
If you want to use Logitech Media Server the obvious choice is piCorePlayer. A Rasp Pi running piCorePlayer can be used as a Squeezebox player (using the same Squeezelite that is used in many expensive streamer boxes), can be used as an LMS server or can be used as both a player and server together. piCorePlayer is actively maintained and actively supported (via the Slimdevices forum), and is designed to do one job and by all reports it does that job very well indeed.

I've used the slimdevices forum for many years and the people there are very helpful and are often amazingly patient. Indeed, if you created a thread in the "3rd Party Hardware" section explaining exactly what you are looking to do you will get many suggestions from which you can pick and choose

Links:
piCorePlayer website: https://www.picoreplayer.org/main_about.shtml
piCorePlayer support thread on Logitech slimdevices forum: https://forums.slimdevices.com/showt...313#post949313
3rd Party Hardward section in the slimdevices forum: https://forums.slimdevices.com/forum...Party-Hardware

I'll reply about rasp pi hardware after lunch.

Hardware:
There are various options for Rasp Pi

Forgive my slight lack of technical knowledge - I think i want to use the pi as both a player and a server. Essentially I want to be able to setup LMS on the pi, point at the music connection on my NAS, and be able to install the LMS plugins. I then want to be be able to play the music on my amp, with it being controlled via an android phone that I keep in the living room that I use to stream other audio/radio etc to the amp (I have a Chromecast Audio but if I use the audio mirroring with an app which does not officially support casting it randomly disconnects.

Thanks for all your help.

[johnb]

I think i want to use the pi as both a player and a server. Essentially I want to be able to setup LMS on the pi, point at the music connection on my NAS, and be able to install the LMS plugins.

I seem to remember that Michael Herger, amongst others, also runs LMS in exactly that way. Yes, LMS is still actively maintained. (Michael Herger is the Logitech software engineer who maintains LMS and the Qobuz plugin and who is very active in the slimdevices forum.)

I then want to be be able to play the music on my amp, with it being controlled via an android phone that I keep in the living room

That is how I control LMS and the player, though with the iPad equivalent. I use LMS for my music collection (on a HP Microserver), Spotify, Qobuz, BBC iPlayer, etc, etc.

Another thing for you to consider is whether you want the Rasp Pi + DAC to be "headless" (without a screen) or to have a screen.

I am running mine headless - accessing piCorePlayer from my PC when necessary, playing music via my iPeng/iPad and doing any LMS setting up from my PC, as and when necessary. I already have a decent DAC so I decided on the Allo Digione Signature on the basis of prospective sound quality and I'm powering the "clean side" with batteries (LiFePo).

The Rasp Pi players have developed from things that were definitely in the "hobbyist" category towards a hinterland between hobbyist and consumer kit. They are not "plug and play" consumer boxes but sometimes need a bit of tinkering - though forums such as slimdevices, etc provide help.

Having said that, for information, there are two relatively expensive network streamers that I know of that are Rasp Pi based: the Metrum Ambre (circa £1,000) and the Bryston BDP-Pi (circa £1,400). Both of these provide digital output only but they have high quality power supplies, a range of outputs and attractive metal cases.

However, the Rasp Pi players we are talking about (wither with digital out or with a built in DAC) have one or more boards stacked on top of the Rasp Pi boards.

Because the Rasp Pi board is electrically noisy the designer usually attempts to isolate the additional boards from the Pi and often two separate power supplies are needed - one to feed the noisy Rasp Pi and another to supply the other "clean" boards.

As for choosing which hardware, the best idea would be to get suggestions from the folk on the slimdevices forum. It will help if you explain what you are looking for as fully as you can. They are much, much more knowledgeable than I am - and they are also very down to earth. (The choices can start fairly inexpensively but go up to, say, £560 for an Allo Katana with power supply.)

I am very happy to help in any way.

[cmr_for3]

I seem to remember that Michael Herger, amongst others, also runs LMS in exactly that way. Yes, LMS is still actively maintained. (Michael Herger is the Logitech software engineer who maintains LMS and the Qobuz plugin and who is very active in the slimdevices forum.)



That is how I control LMS and the player, though with the iPad equivalent. I use LMS for my music collection (on a HP Microserver), Spotify, Qobuz, BBC iPlayer, etc, etc.

Another thing for you to consider is whether you want the Rasp Pi + DAC to be "headless" (without a screen) or to have a screen.

I am running mine headless - accessing piCorePlayer from my PC when necessary, playing music via my iPeng/iPad and doing any LMS setting up from my PC, as and when necessary. I already have a decent DAC so I decided on the Allo Digione Signature on the basis of prospective sound quality and I'm powering the "clean side" with batteries (LiFePo).

The Rasp Pi players have developed from things that were definitely in the "hobbyist" category towards a hinterland between hobbyist and consumer kit. They are not "plug and play" consumer boxes but sometimes need a bit of tinkering - though forums such as slimdevices, etc provide help.

Having said that, for information, there are two relatively expensive network streamers that I know of that are Rasp Pi based: the Metrum Ambre (circa £1,000) and the Bryston BDP-Pi (circa £1,400). Both of these provide digital output only but they have high quality power supplies, a range of outputs and attractive metal cases.

However, the Rasp Pi players we are talking about (wither with digital out or with a built in DAC) have one or more boards stacked on top of the Rasp Pi boards.

Because the Rasp Pi board is electrically noisy the designer usually attempts to isolate the additional boards from the Pi and often two separate power supplies are needed - one to feed the noisy Rasp Pi and another to supply the other "clean" boards.

As for choosing which hardware, the best idea would be to get suggestions from the folk on the slimdevices forum. It will help if you explain what you are looking for as fully as you can. They are much, much more knowledgeable than I am - and they are also very down to earth. (The choices can start fairly inexpensively but go up to, say, £560 for an Allo Katana with power supply.)

I am very happy to help in any way.

Very many thanks for taking the time to explain all this. I have poor fine motor skills and although I have people who can assist me, they are not technically minded. Thus I was in the market for a cheap pre built pi with DAC as the basis of a project to enable me to have an LMS server. I stumbled upon this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Raspberry...ad6d%7Ciid%3A1

I am planning on running this headless although I do have the ability to plug into my PC monitor (which is actually a TV) via HDMI and share my mouse and keyboard so will use this for the initial setup. The BBC Iplayer plugin sounds interesting, does that allow you to sign in with your BBC account? I use the Radio Player app for the majority of my R3 listening.

Thanks again

[johnb]

The LMS iPlayer plugin doesn't need you to sign in, ever, and streams the HD (320 kbps AAC) sound for both live and listen again programmes. Again, this is actively maintained and supported. (For example, a few years ago when the BBC used FLAC streams for the Proms the developer brought out a revision to play the FLAC streams within a few days of them beginning.)

I would be hesitant about that Rasp Pi on ebay. It is cheap (though buying used on ebay is a bit of a gamble), but it uses an older Pi board: Version 1B which, amongst other things only has 256 or 512 MB of Ram. The Pi 3B+ has 1GB and the Pi4 has up to 4GB. This is important because piCorePlayer operates entirely in RAM - it doesn't write to the SD at all during normal operation - so having 1GB or better still 4GB of RAM makes a real difference. One benefit of the piCorePlayer running entirely in RAM is that SD card won't be corrupted if the power fails and the general resilience of the SD card is much improved.

I know you are looking for a pre-assembled Rasp Pi but to give you some idea of the cost of the equivalent, but current, parts in a bundles direct from HiFiBerry is:

Rasp Pi 3B+ (1GB RAM), HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro, Case, Power Supply: £80 (plus £9 or £15 post and packaging, and plus SD card)
- better Pi and better DAC, deduct £8 for "standard" DAC

Rasp Pi 4B (4GB RAM), HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro, Case, Power Supply: £102 (plus £9 or £15 post and packaging, and plus SD card)
- better Pi and better DAC, deduct £8 for "standard" DAC

[cmr_for3]

Thanks John - very interesting. Are you saying it would struggle to run Pi Core Player?

Ut's not the cost which is the issue, so much as the fact that I can't build the thing myself and would need to rely on others and they are not especially technical (they would be relying on my direction so I need to make sure I bone up on any bits which require careful handling). You have helped immensely though bu putting together the bundle prices (I had been looking at the IQaudIO bundles but one part or other part was always out of stock) If I end up winning this current one on ebay I could always just upgrade the DAC and Pi, I would still have the case and power supply to use.

Many Thanks once again

[johnb]

Sorry for the delay in replying.

I would be nervous about the box on Ebay but it is up to you, of course. I suspect it will probably run piCorePlayer and LMS but that it will be sluggish and pretty slow to scan your music library - perhaps leaving you feeling less than satisfied.

Of course, so much depends on your budget, your expectations and what level of audio quality you want to achieve.

A relatively inexpensive one box solution is very attractive but bear in mind that a separate DAC will almost certainly give better sound quality, but at an additional cost. In the end you get what you pay for.

(At this "entry level" level there is the Allo Boss which includes a DAC and which comes pre-assembled. It will do the job though some reviewers are less enthusiastic than others.)

I understand the problem of getting other people to help assemble parts. I would very happily help doing that if you live near (it is only a 5 to 15 minute job).

In the meantime I will have a look round and think about the matter.

[cmr_for3]

No worries about the delay in replying John - I was just off out to work hence a great number of typos in my last post that I need to tidy up.

If I do win the pre built one on ebay I shall treat it as a learning exercise and not expect too much.

Thanks very much for your kind offer of assistance - warmly appreciated.

If needs be I will buy one of the HIFI Berry Bundles you kindly listed and I am sure myself and the person I have in mind will be able to struggle through.

I shall update this thread with progress.

Many thanks again for all your help. I of course will warmly receive any suggestions or tips you think of.

[johnb]

I've asked the experts, on your behalf, whether piCorePlayer + LMS can be successfully run on a Pi 1B.

The link is: https://forums.slimdevices.com/showt...l=1#post949547

I am most definitely no expert on Rasp Pi hardware and there are so many options from various suppliers that my head begins to hurt.

Looking at Rasp Pi + DAC options. from what I can gather there the HiFiBerry DAC and Allo Boss (assembled) as the entry level options.

Audiophonics do some Rasp Pi + DAC options that are a significant level up from the HiFiBerry/Allo Boss and which use their own DAC boards. Also their kits include some pretty decent cases with most cables re-routed to the back.

By the way, one thing I should have asked before is whether you are intending to use the Rasp Pi connected by WiFi (you would need a dongle for the 1B) or wired (more stable).

[cmr_for3]

Many Thanks John (I will sign up for the forum)

I would like to go wired, but I might need such a long cable as for this to be unpractical so I will check (I do have some long cables) so wifi will be needed (I think I've already found the correct dongle)

I shall find out approx 11:30 tomorrow whether or not I've won the ebay listing, but whatever the outcome I've now got a clear steer on this project.

Your help and advice is much appreciated.

[Dave2002]

Wired is probably better, though wireless can be good enough sometimes. Wireless might experience interference, dropouts and lower data rates. Whether this will affect audio is an open question, and different people may argue about this. If jitter is of any concern it might be best to go for fully wired. Otherwise perhaps try mains based powerline connections, though some are wary of those and claim they introduce new problems. My own experiences with mains connections have been variable, though I didn't find too many problems for my audio purposes.

[cmr_for3]

Wired is probably better, though wireless can be good enough sometimes. Wireless might experience interference, dropouts and lower data rates. Whether this will affect audio is an open question, and different people may argue about this. If jitter is of any concern it might be best to go for fully wired. Otherwise perhaps try mains based powerline connections, though some are wary of those and claim they introduce new problems. My own experiences with mains connections have been variable, though I didn't find too many problems for my audio purposes.

Thanks Dave - good to know it did not cause you too many audio issues.