Music On Blu-ray

[richardfinegold]

Sorry rfg, this may seem from the University of the Bleedin' Obvious, but......

How can the streaming company "pull your recordings, wipe your downloads"...?!

Once you have the files on your own drive(s), surely they're safe from harm...?

(I tend to see my Qobuz Studio Streaming service as a sort of library I subscribe to. I never think of it as owning the recordings, let alone the music... I've never had one disappear from my faves page...)

As per my referenced mention of Spotify and Krivine, I had stored those recordings in my Spotify Library, only to have seen them disappear when I tried to re access them. I then could not pull up Krivine Beethoven from the general Spotify section. I e mailed Spotify and they no longer had these recordings Liscensed. Since I no longer use Spotify I couldn’t check the current status of these recordings
This happens a lot more in pop music. I have had at least one pop album disappear and then reappear from an iTunes download, as the agents of the long defunct pop group (MC5) apparently fell out and then renegotiated with Apple.When Taylor Swift fought with streaming services I recall numerous reports of her downloads no longer being accessible to the people who had purchased them through the offending services. How this works technically is beyond my comprehension but I have read many audio critics mention that people do not truly own their downloads

[Bryn]

As per my referenced mention of Spotify and Krivine, I had stored those recordings in my Spotify Library, only to have seen them disappear when I tried to re access them. I then could not pull up Krivine Beethoven from the general Spotify section. I e mailed Spotify and they no longer had these recordings Liscensed. Since I no longer use Spotify I couldn’t check the current status of these recordings
This happens a lot more in pop music. I have had at least one pop album disappear and then reappear from an iTunes download, as the agents of the long defunct pop group (MC5) apparently fell out and then renegotiated with Apple.When Taylor Swift fought with streaming services I recall numerous reports of her downloads no longer being accessible to the people who had purchased them through the offending services. How this works technically is beyond my comprehension but I have read many audio critics mention that people do not truly own their downloads

It gets worse. The streamed offereing of the Krivine Beethoven Symphonies on KOBUS has major faults (only a first few seconds of two movements, one from each of the first two symphonies).

[Dave2002]

How this works technically is beyond my comprehension but I have read many audio critics mention that people do not truly own their downloads

You may be right, though I suspect that is only the case if you stay within a firm's walled garden. In the case of Apple my guess would be that if you copied all the downloads out to external storage, and perhaps even changed the format (say to FLAC), that it would then be impossible for the supplier to then block access to that download subsequently. If it were to be possible for a player to block a recording surely that would require collusion with the supplier (Apple) and not all software developers would comply. Bit of a murky area there, though.

Regarding ownership - legally I think most music is not "owned" in so far as the physical media are owned, but the rights to play the contents are restricted. There is normally no hardware restriction, but there can be legal penalties for not complying with the restrictions - such as playing the media in a public place, or for money, or copying and selling copies etc. etc. For most practical purposes domestic users who don't flagrantly ignore the restrictions do own the music on physical media.

Unfortunately in the UK technically even copying a physical disc for the convenience of playing it back via a network server already violates relevant laws. In other countries this might be explicitly allowed. It's one of those bonkers things were people are going to do it anyway, and most will not be pursued by the "long arm ..." as long as they don't act so unreasonably that authorities become determined to take action, though in the limit it's not up to the end user to decide what is reasonable.

[richardfinegold]

The loss of music due to contractural issues is a relatively unimportant consideration, even if it has happened to me a couple of times. To put it in context, I probably misfile a few CDs every week (or drop them under a sofa) or have trouble locating several albums that I have moved to a hard drive. I am more concerned about broadband and internet availability.
Perhaps the U.K., being a relatively small and technologically advanced island, does not have areas of poor internet penetration, but there are still large expanses of the U.S., including one that I am considering relocating to upon retirement, where coverage is poor. Streaming simply wouldn’t be an option along the vast coastline of Lake Michigan. And here in Chicago, the ISP cuts bandwidth availability with impunity, resulting in video bottlenecks, dropouts in Music during rips or replay from streaming services. (I had ripped several albums recently without realizing that I hadn’t reconnected the Ethernet cable to the MacAir, which therefore defaulted to WiFi to connect to my NAS, and that batch of rips is filled with dropouts).
I like streaming, having spent extensive time now with Spotify, Apple, and now Qobuz, and dipped my toe in a few others. My complaint is that the Wild success of streaming is crowding out other technological alternatives. Blu Ray would be such a great space saving media, with the highest quality of sound reproduction and reproducible with sanely priced equipment. Perfect for those of us who don’t either want to get into computer based replay or don’t wish to deal with some of the limitations, and also for those who enjoy Multichannel, an area that streaming doesn’t address. The music companies would rather just put it all on the internet, and most people want to access it that way. It’s just a frustration that what is technologically achievable won’t be offered due to market forces.
Rant over

[Dave2002]

Perhaps the U.K., being a relatively small and technologically advanced island, does not have areas of poor internet penetration, but there are still large expanses of the U.S., including one that I am considering relocating to upon retirement, where coverage is poor.

Don't you believe it! Mostly there is supposedly good to very good coverage in many areas, but the actual performance varies considerably. Currently we can get around 70 Mbps with a fixed link on a good day, but that doesn't mean that the service is continuous. Sometimes there are significant glitches, even if the infrastructure is intact. These result in much reduced data rates, which may be load dependent - for example if kids come home from school and everyone in the street starts downloading huge files at the same time. Also a lot of people now watch TV via the internet, so the available bandwidth gets reduced considerably.

Wireless links are being rolled out, but they are very susceptible to poor reception and there are many spots where mobile internet hardly works at all.

A further major irritation, which sometimes takes weeks to fix, is due to thieves who steal copper cable or fibre links (who knows what they would do with fibre ..) and try to sell it for profit - causing many problems. These are similar to gangs who steal cable from overhead railway power lines, or even the national grid power lines. Some of them even kill themselves in the process. Sometimes the problems aren't due to thieves, but simply weather, such as water getting into the cable ducts.

[pastoralguy]

Mrs. PG and I came into some money we weren't expecting and decided to upgrade our tv to one with Smart capability. In the end we bought a fire stick for £50 and upgraded our existing tv to digital capability. However, in anticipation of buying a new tv we did buy a very good Cambridge Audio DVD player from eBay which has blu-ray and SACD capability.

Our last blu-ray player was a £70 job from ASDA and although it's done sterling service there's no denying the incredible difference in picture quality and definition. However, what's surprised me is how good the SACD reproduction is compared to our existing SONY CD player which I bought when our Quad ELITE CD player struggled with SACDs. (I remember writing here about how disappointed I was that the Beethoven 5&7 with Honeck and the Pittsburgh Orchestra wouldn't play on the Quad machine!)

I've not quite got round listening to blu-ray audio discs yet but the blu-ray video has superb sound. I tried it with Sir Simon und Die Berliner Philharmoniker in the Sibelius symphonies and the picture/sound combo was absolutely fantastic!

I really wished we hadn't waited so long to buy a better quality blu-ray/SACD machine.

I have purchased the latest version of Fournier's Bach 'cello Suite which has a blu-ray audio disc so, next time I have time, I'll sit and do a side by side comparison with my CDs from 1989 and the newly remastered CDs alongside the Blu-Ray audio.

[richardfinegold]

Mrs. PG and I came into some money we weren't expecting and decided to upgrade our tv to one with Smart capability. In the end we bought a fire stick for £50 and upgraded our existing tv to digital capability. However, in anticipation of buying a new tv we did buy a very good Cambridge Audio DVD player from eBay which has blu-ray and SACD capability.

Our last blu-ray player was a £70 job from ASDA and although it's done sterling service there's no denying the incredible difference in picture quality and definition. However, what's surprised me is how good the SACD reproduction is compared to our existing SONY CD player which I bought when our Quad ELITE CD player struggled with SACDs. (I remember writing here about how disappointed I was that the Beethoven 5&7 with Honeck and the Pittsburgh Orchestra wouldn't play on the Quad machine!)

I've not quite got round listening to blu-ray audio discs yet but the blu-ray video has superb sound. I tried it with Sir Simon und Die Berliner Philharmoniker in the Sibelius symphonies and the picture/sound combo was absolutely fantastic!

I really wished we hadn't waited so long to buy a better quality blu-ray/SACD machine.

I have purchased the latest version of Fournier's Bach 'cello Suite which has a blu-ray audio disc so, next time I have time, I'll sit and do a side by side comparison with my CDs from 1989 and the newly remastered CDs alongside the Blu-Ray audio.

It’s an eye opener, isn’t it, PG, when you discover how good t can be? You are making me curious about the Rattle Sibelius cycle...

[Bryn]

Re. #81, I wish you had not mentioned the Fournier. I was not aware of a Blu-ray of it. Now I feel the urge to hear it.

[Dave2002]

Re. #81, I wish you had not mentioned the Fournier. I was not aware of a Blu-ray of it. Now I feel the urge to hear it.

Seems fairly recent - https://www.prestomusic.com/classica...6-bwv1007-1012

The other place is currently more expensive - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bach-J-S-Su...s=music&sr=1-9 though some market place sellers may have these for lower prices.

[jayne lee wilson]

Mrs. PG and I came into some money we weren't expecting and decided to upgrade our tv to one with Smart capability. In the end we bought a fire stick for £50 and upgraded our existing tv to digital capability. However, in anticipation of buying a new tv we did buy a very good Cambridge Audio DVD player from eBay which has blu-ray and SACD capability.

Our last blu-ray player was a £70 job from ASDA and although it's done sterling service there's no denying the incredible difference in picture quality and definition. However, what's surprised me is how good the SACD reproduction is compared to our existing SONY CD player which I bought when our Quad ELITE CD player struggled with SACDs. (I remember writing here about how disappointed I was that the Beethoven 5&7 with Honeck and the Pittsburgh Orchestra wouldn't play on the Quad machine!)

I've not quite got round listening to blu-ray audio discs yet but the blu-ray video has superb sound. I tried it with Sir Simon und Die Berliner Philharmoniker in the Sibelius symphonies and the picture/sound combo was absolutely fantastic!

I really wished we hadn't waited so long to buy a better quality blu-ray/SACD machine.

I have purchased the latest version of Fournier's Bach 'cello Suite which has a blu-ray audio disc so, next time I have time, I'll sit and do a side by side comparison with my CDs from 1989 and the newly remastered CDs alongside the Blu-Ray audio.

Could you tell us a little more about the system, pg...? Are you listening to the blu-rays in surround or stereo....and how do they compare to the various CD releases you may have....?
That would be very interesting....

[pastoralguy]

Could you tell us a little more about the system, pg...? Are you listening to the blu-rays in surround or stereo....and how do they compare to the various CD releases you may have....?
That would be very interesting....

Thanks for asking, Jayne.

We've had a Quad Elite system for dome time now with Magnaplane speakers so I've simply plugged the new, well new to me, Cambridge Audio DVD/SACD into the auxiliary socket. Mrs. PG is going to see UB40 tonite in the Usher Hall so I might get an opportunity to do some side by side comparison. Should be interesting.

[Dave2002]

A couple more Blu-Ray sets spotted.

https://smile.amazon.co.uk/Accardo-P...1D4MCS2J7ZRFJT Paganini concertos - Accardo.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Beethoven-9...gateway&sr=8-1 Bernstein - Beethoven Symphonies, VPO
This seems cheaper than the obvious alternative supplier - but you need to make sure you get the version with the 6th disc - the Blu-Ray.

I wouldtn't necessarily rush to replace some of Bernstein's earlier recordings (Sony, CBS) but some of the VPO ones are excellent, and if the sound quality has improved this could be a good buy for some.

I'm guessing these are stereo - as I can't see the details on the web pages.

I'll keep looking.

[cloughie]

With blu-ray discs being on the increase the worrying thought is that before too long blu-ray will be replacing CDs as the main form of issue - whilst that may be fine for many, do I really want to go through yet another transition on my hi fi system?

[Dave2002]

With blu-ray discs being on the increase the worrying thought is that before too long blu-ray will be replacing CDs as the main form of issue - whilst that may be fine for many, do I really want to go through yet another transition on my hi fi system?

I’m more concerned about downloads and streaming, with record companies and other third parties acting as gatekeepers to what I want to, or am able, to listen to. I doubt that Blu-Ray is going to replace CD in the short term, but it’s certainly possible that streaming and/or downloads may be the only option for some releases in the not too distant future. I think this has already happened for some music, forcing one to resort to used items from eBay.

Of course some may see this as a financial opportunity - buy up cheap box sets - more than needed, then sell on eBay at higher prices when and if the demand goes up.

[jayne lee wilson]

It also occurs to me to ask those of you who have the experience of BDP/Universal audiovisual players: what audio do you actually get at the analogue/digital outputs in either multi-ch or stereo?
From various online searching it would appear to be 24/96/192 pcm etc.... any thoughts or info here please? Is that what a given external DAC will display/read out off of optical/coax etc.?

Is it worth listening to, or pursuing, blu-ray audio as a stereo-only medium...?

(Part of the problem with SACD is how many of the physical disc issues are converted from 24/48/96 etc pcm originals, sometimes explicitly so on the disc inlay.....)