Music On Blu-ray

[richardfinegold]

Dk2k and Bryn.... it really comes back to the personal....to do multichannel at the same quality-level as my current stereo set-up is beyond me financially (I recall reading Kal Rubinson's multi-ch pieces in Stereophile and thinking "if only..." he had a roomful of large B&W Monitors and reviewed inter alia the 3-channel Mercury reissues...), but in any case I don't often find either the LSO/Barbican or the Berlin/Rattle catalogues attractive for both musical (interpretative) and technical (acoustic) reasons....

And I'd rather try something out I don't know (Polish Contemporary Concertos, ha!), rather than ever-better resolved versions of the familiar classical rep... as I said above etc...
(As my recent, belated obsession with post-Cooke Mahler 10ths has revealed to me once again...)

But age, health, loss and life-changes take their toll as well... I feel differently about almost all my listening now...maybe I just ain't got the energy to system-rebuild all over again, just now....or start a blu-ray physical disc collection to cram in somewhere with all the CDs....

HiFi System building can be fun, but gave me much heartache too, when it didn't work out....it is nice now that the music repro is high-enough quality to keep me happy most of the time, without wondering whether another change might improve it, rewarding though that has often been....

Right now, the only possible purchase might be those superb little KEF LS actives to give me better sound (than the trusty Denon soundbar) from music in the TV system... and I still dream of another encounter with ATC Active 50 monitors here in this room, again..(never heard anything better, but the ears couldn't cope...) .. or perhaps a Harbeth M40...but - all in stereo of course..(how many people have heard Stereo done really, tangibly, 3D reach-out-and-touch well?).

(Hifi...?...In fact I made a useful upgrade a few weeks ago... moved my listening chair nearer to the Harbeth C7 speakers....more 3D, present and realistic...all thanks to the Cat who likes to spend the night on The Official Stereo Chair sometimes, making me sit on the floor in front of it...hence the revelation...)

I think that you seem to have missed the point that great MC can be achieved at minimum expenditure. The gains in ambience, in spatial perception, and other factors can be achieved with mid Fi equipment that while sounding pretty decent in Stereo, completely enters a new realm in MC. Yes, it would be great to have the kind of equipment that Rubinson has, but it isn’t necessary. MC, especially when combined with a good Room correction program, is a great leveler. Champagne results on a beer budget

[richardfinegold]

I have to say that I find the rejection of Blu-ray to place in question anyone's claim to audiophilia. As a distribution format for high definition audio it is still fairly young but some, such as LSO Live, are exploiting it with considerable imagination. The Blu-ray in their fairly recent boxed set of Rattle's PeM, for instance, not only holds 2-channel stereo and surround recordings playable directly from the disc, but copyable high definition FLACs, plus mp3s, etc. Accompanying the Blu-ray disc are 3 hybrid SACDs, so plenty of opportunities for audio fidelity comparison. The performance is not too bad, either.

Excellent post. The JEG/LSO Mendelssohn also features a Blu Ray and 3 SACDS, and cost me $18, including shipping from the u.K.

[richardfinegold]

You’re really selling it to me!

Yes he sure is persuasive. I’ve never heard the piece, but having only just discovered Debussy music for the martyrdom of St Sebastian, Kphone has persuaded me to order P&M

[jayne lee wilson]

I think that you seem to have missed the point that great MC can be achieved at minimum expenditure. The gains in ambience, in spatial perception, and other factors can be achieved with mid Fi equipment that while sounding pretty decent in Stereo, completely enters a new realm in MC. Yes, it would be great to have the kind of equipment that Rubinson has, but it isn’t necessary. MC, especially when combined with a good Room correction program, is a great leveler. Champagne results on a beer budget

Interesting, thanks.... but that would still mean a whole other system, in another room, and I guess multi-ch just hasn't caught my imagination... for me the desire
has to be there and it isn't, or not yet, with multi-channel or blu-ray...(looking at all the extras in that Rattle Pelleas set...well, great, but I wouldn't have much use for most of them really...I just want to dwell upon the music itself now.)

I love my present stereo rig... the music is centre stage in every way (and feels even more important now), which is when I'm happiest (and more adventurous in repertoire, always a good sign with me...). So right now, I dont want to put new equipment, i.e. system-building, back in the foreground of my attention again.
I find fault with so much gear it usually makes choice, or system alteration, quite stressful!

There are many ways to be an audiophile beyond the fashion for the newest media (I retain a keen interest in earlier CD players, and still fantasise about a 2ndhand Marantz CD7 (one of KI's own favourite 90s designs....the other one is sitting over there...)., not to mention the Unicornian CD/DA12.....), and as I said above, I wonder how many listeners have experienced really good, tangible, large-scale stereo imagery etc.? It took me long enough after all...
I used to have the ringdac Arcam Alpha 9 CD player and I thought well, this is it....Out came the CD23... it put the '9 to shame for 3D realism..."my god I've only just BEGUN...
Then came the Krell, the ATCs, the Harbeths...much trial and error.... I follow my heart to find my sound, we all have our own story...multi-ch remains the path not taken....

(Yet...)

[Dave2002]

I just noticed this stereo Blu Ray Audio - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Beethoven-F...QTCCNEZN1FPNFZ - Bernstein, Beethoven Fidelio

LPCM 2.0 so no surround sound advantage, but will get all the music on one disc.

I wonder if the Blu Ray does sound any better than the CDs it comes with. If this is a new trend, then perhaps eventually as more of these bundles are sold, we will be able to make a list of Blu Rays, with a relative evaluation of the CDs versus the Blu Rays.

[cloughie]

BBM does.

Brewed just across the Truro River from my house, in this small but almost perfectly formed city.

It’s the favoured brew of the Lay Vicars of the cathedral choir, resampled after (almost) every evening service.

No blu-ray player but I had a couple of pints of the excellent brew in my local pub this week.

[Dave2002]

No blu-ray player but I had a couple of pints of the excellent brew in my local pub this week.

Does that have a good effect on the SQ?

[HighlandDougie]

I just noticed this stereo Blu Ray Audio - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Beethoven-F...QTCCNEZN1FPNFZ - Bernstein, Beethoven Fidelio

LPCM 2.0 so no surround sound advantage, but will get all the music on one disc.

I wonder if the Blu Ray does sound any better than the CDs it comes with. If this is a new trend, then perhaps eventually as more of these bundles are sold, we will be able to make a list of Blu Rays, with a relative evaluation of the CDs versus the Blu Rays.

As to the question of sound quality of the CDs vs the Blu-Ray, the Blu-Ray remastering is aurally superior. Comparison made using the Pioneer UDP LX-800. Same applies to Kempff’s Schubert, Amadeus Beethoven, Kubelik Mahler etc etc. However, even Blu-Ray can’t turn sows’ ears, recording-wise, into silk purses so what didn’t sound wonderful in 1969 is not going to sound wonderful in 2019. Some of the Kertesz Dvorak issues fall into that category IMV.

[cloughie]

As to the question of sound quality of the CDs vs the Blu-Ray, the Blu-Ray remastering is aurally superior. Comparison made using the Pioneer UDP LX-800. Same applies to Kempff’s Schubert, Amadeus Beethoven, Kubelik Mahler etc etc. However, even Blu-Ray can’t turn sows’ ears, recording-wise, into silk purses so what didn’t sound wonderful in 1969 is not going to sound wonderful in 2019. Some of the Kertesz Dvorak issues fall into that category IMV.

Kertesz Decca recordings sounded excellent to me in 1969!

[Dave2002]

As to the question of sound quality of the CDs vs the Blu-Ray, the Blu-Ray remastering is aurally superior. Comparison made using the Pioneer UDP LX-800. Same applies to Kempff’s Schubert, Amadeus Beethoven, Kubelik Mahler etc etc. However, even Blu-Ray can’t turn sows’ ears, recording-wise, into silk purses so what didn’t sound wonderful in 1969 is not going to sound wonderful in 2019. Some of the Kertesz Dvorak issues fall into that category IMV.

Thanks for the update. Re the comment about what didn't sound wonderful in 1969 it does rather depend on why it didn't. I have heard recordings from around the end of the 60s and early 70s at the time which sounded superb then on some of the best equipment, but which I'm guessing would have only been average on most people's kit. Problems with remastering recordings from that era now are likely to include - tape hiss, tape degradation, speed and pitch variations, and maybe other kinds of distortion, plus a narrow dynamic range. Tape hiss is probably unavoidable, but can be managed. Tape degradation is perhaps a much bigger problem. If the engineers could have digitised the master tape immediately after it had been put together [but of course they didn't and didn't have the means to do that] then maybe the quality of some of the recordings could have been maintained, but 40 or 50 years on, what sources are there which are really good enough quality? It's probable that in the case of some recordings the best "masters" now are actually LP recordings made from the tapes and master discs before the tape degradation had started to set in. That's not ideal, but in some cases may be the best which can be done now.

It is still possible to enjoy some of the recordings from earlier years, but sometimes the transfers and reconstructions from the material which remains are just too poor to be enjoyed for their sound quality - though the performances which they captured may still be of high merit.

[jayne lee wilson]

As to the question of sound quality of the CDs vs the Blu-Ray, the Blu-Ray remastering is aurally superior. Comparison made using the Pioneer UDP LX-800. Same applies to Kempff’s Schubert, Amadeus Beethoven, Kubelik Mahler etc etc. However, even Blu-Ray can’t turn sows’ ears, recording-wise, into silk purses so what didn’t sound wonderful in 1969 is not going to sound wonderful in 2019. Some of the Kertesz Dvorak issues fall into that category IMV.

But a dedicated redbook player could outdo the Pioneer on CD couldn't it? I bet it could....Like a classic Krell or Marantz say , standalone or especially, playing through a modern, carefully CD-optimised DAC.......

So maybe the universal-player comparison of different media isn't quite without a degree of inescapable confirmation bias....

[Dave2002]

But a dedicated redbook player could outdo the Pioneer on CD couldn't it? I bet it could....Like a classic Krell or Marantz say , standalone or especially, playing through a modern, carefully CD-optimised DAC.......

So maybe the universal-player comparison of different media isn't quite without a degree of inescapable confirmation bias....

Aren’t you making big assumptions? I don’t actually know whether you are right or others would agree about your choice of “classic” CD players when compared with Blu Ray units. It’s possible you are wrong, but you are trying to take a biased view ab initio. I would agree that probably playing a CD directly on a Blu Ray player will probably not give outstanding results, but I would expect that connecting a Blu-ray player to a high quality DAC would give similar results to a very good CD player, or such a CD player connected to a similar DAC.

[Bryn]

If jlw is thinking in terms of jitter, the PS3 was widely recognised as offering around the lowest rates around. Sadly, the only such device in my household is the lower audio functionality PS4. I am somewhat tempted to investigate a reconditioned PS3 at the right price, to feed a decent DAC, however.

[jayne lee wilson]

Aren’t you making big assumptions? I don’t actually know whether you are right or others would agree about your choice of “classic” CD players when compared with Blu Ray units. It’s possible you are wrong, but you are trying to take a biased view ab initio. I would agree that probably playing a CD directly on a Blu Ray player will probably not give outstanding results, but I would expect that connecting a Blu-ray player to a high quality DAC would give similar results to a very good CD player, or such a CD player connected to a similar DAC.

if I make assumptions they're based on a lifetime of listening to systems where - the more you ask a given unit (like a Universal Player) to do, the less high-quality its performance with some of the individual media will usually be. And it is often, though not invariably, the so-called "legacy" media like CD that are less-well served in a player optimised for blu-ray or SACD etc...

Mutatis mutandis, the more isolated a given component/source/power supply is from its neighbours, the better its data retrieval (e.g delicate info like timbral detail, individual address of the instrument, or spatial precision i.e imagery) will also tend to be. But as I often say, it is all down to the individual system, the separates (what goes on under the lid e.g. galvanic isolation) and how well they work together. It can seem like something of a black art to optimise a given set-up, but like a famous definition of genius, it is often down to an infinite capacity for taking pains...(read: trial and error...).

Of course feeding the CD data stream into a separate DAC may (often does) give better results, but (unfortunately! )....transports make an audible difference too. As anyone who has compared various Teac, Philips, Sony CD sources, not to mention computers or streamers used as USB Transports, can attest.

[HighlandDougie]

But a dedicated redbook player could outdo the Pioneer on CD couldn't it? I bet it could....Like a classic Krell or Marantz say , standalone or especially, playing through a modern, carefully CD-optimised DAC.......

So maybe the universal-player comparison of different media isn't quite without a degree of inescapable confirmation bias....

No doubt. But different systems in different countries so quite challenging to compare my big Wadia CD player in Scotland with the Pioneer in France (which is not bad as a CD-spinner). The best sound quality I have heard recently has been from the MQA-ified CDs I’ve been buying from Japan but that’s another story.