Does anyone use (understand) Midi?

[Dave2002]

Midi has been around for a long while, yet I have never really used it before.

I am trying to figure out how to get it to work, both with software (DAWs) and hardware - a couple of keyboards.
A lot of the information about this seems arcane, yet I can't believe it's really that difficult.

I do now at least have an interface which works (at least partially) - a Roland UM-1.

I have manged to play keyboards and get sound output using Garageband (I know, I know - mrgg - will be on to me about this ....).
I have been trying to get output on the keyboards - which has so far failed. One reason which I've just found is that it seems that Garageband cannot drive an external synthesizer. I do have an evaluation version of Reaper, so perhaps I can get that to work. If not, I'll try some other DAWs.

Some people may ask - "why bother with external synthesizers for output?". One very simple reason is that the keyboard I have, generates quite a loud sound, and if I can get it to work, it will save having to get the audio side done via amps and loudspeakers.

I don't particularly want to make music by making Midi files from my own playing on the kayboards, but what I particularly want to do is to take prepared midi files from elsewhere, and use them - sometimes for very specific purposes. I could also edit ready made Miidi files - which might be useful if I can get things working well enough.

Right now the specific purpose I'd like to address is playing Contrapunctus I. I have found one Midi file which works, but what I'd now like to be able to do is to play it back, and to be able to select individual parts for the playback. I'd also like to be able to vary the tempo and the instrumentation. For the moment this is specifically as a means for practice on "real" instruments. It'll make a change from playing along with the Emerson quartet, and being able to control the tempo would be very useful.

It really doesn't seem to me too difficult an idea to realise given the hardware and software which is available, but as with many things hardware and software related, geting things to actually work can be annoyingly difficult. There is probably a lot of arcane stuff which "everybody" knows, but only after long periods of exposure and experimentation.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I’m something of a Luddite when it comes to this kind of thing. Strangely, it was on the creation of a backing track (aaaaargh) that pushed me into using MIDI. I tried recording the accompaniment I’d arranged on the piano in the convention way, but I was playing as a soloist, with too much rhythmic flexibility in my playing. Then it occurred to me that I already had the music inputted into Sibelius, so I converted it to MIDI, and the client was delighted. But it wasn’t loud enough, so I went back to the original Sibelius file and added fff throughout. Sorted!

But I do detest the whole concept of b****** tr***s.

[MrGongGong]

I do use and understand MIDI
but not really sure what your problem is ?
What software are you trying to use to play back the MIDI file ?

Garage band ( pile of shite that it is ) will do this simply
But you don't say whether the MIDI file is already split into several parts (MIDI channels) which would make it simple to import into a multi layered player such as the horrible one OR something that works "properly" like Ableton

(Alpie, Sibelius generates MIDI files with very low volume by default, it's a "known issue" but your solution works ok and one i've used myself )

[Dave2002]

I have all of a sudden made progress. I have now checked that I can drive one of the keyboards, and also can drive software from one of the keyboards. So far I’ve had most success with an iPad Pro and a bunch of apps, but I am also working on the MBP with DAWs such as Reaper. Until an hour or so back I wasn’t at all sure that I could get output to external devices.

I do wonder if it’s worth investigating Audiobus - but that works with apps on a device such as an iPad.

I’ve been exploring synths with Audio Synth Kit One - an iPad app, and also Scythe.

Probably won’t have much time to get further with this tomorrow.

[Dave2002]

Two steps forwards - one (?) step backwards

I have now managed the following.

1. Acquired several midi files for Contrapunctus 1 (amongst others).
2. Found a program Crescendo from NCH, which seems able to convert midi files into music notation
3. Imported several midi files into Crescendo, and also Reaper.
4. Checked that the conversion to music notation in Crescendo seems reasonable.
5. Crescendo seems also able to play the midi files, and display the music at the same time. Not quite ideal as it would be good to see a page ahead, but it does work.
6. Connected both the keyboards I have access to via midi cables, and checked that they work.
7. In the case of one of the keyboards I was surprised to find the tuning didn't match the instrument I wanted to play - but I was able to retune the keyboard slightly.
8. I was able to change the tempo of the midi file - but not the instrumentation.
9. I also tried some of this with Reaper - again - but there is a new 64 bit version, and I think that the output has "gone astray" again. Not sure what I have to do to force the output to my keyboards - or indeed to a virtual instrument - software.

So - overall - a bit of progress.

I'm not sure overall how good Crescendo is - though currently it seems to be on offer. I really don't know what its competition is. I think I could be reasonably happy to pay the fee - at the current offer price - which would work out at about £30 - maybe plus a bit for sales tax - but there might be other software which is even better. I just don't know. There is certainly more expensive software out there, but this was the first one I found which seems to do some of the jobs I was hoping to complete.

[BBMmk2]

I download midi files from a couple of sites to my keyboards for tracks I play, mainly rock music.

[MrGongGong]

It's worth remembering that MIDI note numbers start at 0 and go to 127 (the same number of keys on most grand pianos) so there are often offset issues.
Also, MIDI controllers also go from 0 to 127 BUT are often linear rather than logarithmic so smooth volume changes often require a bit of tinkering to get the scaling right.

[Dave2002]

Thanks for comments and suggestions to date. Perhaps a trivial question: so far I have used the two keyboards I have independently, one after the other as I only have one interface. Can they be daisy chained? Maybe it's model dependent. In other words connect the output of one to the input of the other. After that connect the remaining unconnected output and input back to the interface to the computer. I think this is possible, though the keyboards might have to be assigned to different midi channels.

However caution might be advisable - unless I'm very sure. I heard the other day of someone who had a problem with a computer - which happened to contain a lot of photos and other stuff - which he hadn't backed up!. Sad story was that one of his younger family members offered to sort out the problem - seeming to know what he was doing. He know alright - blew the thing completely, trashing about 4 years of work. Plus of course there was then no computer worth fixing.

Ouch!

[MrGongGong]

Some MIDI instruments have IN/OUT/THROUGH connections
THROUGH allows you to send to other channels by daisy chaining
it's worth getting you head around (and i'm very rusty on this) MIDI channels as there are some conventions (CH10 is usually percussion etc)
finding out how to send SYSEX messages to change channels is useful

You are very unlikely to blow anything up though by connecting the wrong way round and MIDI uses 5 Pin DIN leads (though sometimes configured 1 to 5 , 2 to 4 etc) so there is little chance of plugging into the wrong socket unless you are using an old amp with 5 Pin in/outs

[Richard Barrett]

Some MIDI instruments have IN/OUT/THROUGH connections

Usually spelled THRU if I recall correctly.

The amount of current going through MIDI cables is pretty low (5mA at 5V I think) so connecting them wrongly isn't going to do anything any harm. When I used to use actual MIDI cables (as opposed to USB these days) I got some pretty complicated networks going, with both MIDI merge and MIDI splitter boxes. I'm quite glad I don't have to get my head round things like that any more. And then in the even older days there was the dreaded OMS which supposedly took care of MIDI connections inside the computer but was one of the most evilly frustrating pieces of software ever invented.

[Dave2002]

Usually spelled THRU if I recall correctly.

The amount of current going through MIDI cables is pretty low (5mA at 5V I think) so connecting them wrongly isn't going to do anything any harm. When I used to use actual MIDI cables (as opposed to USB these days) I got some pretty complicated networks going, with both MIDI merge and MIDI splitter boxes. I'm quite glad I don't have to get my head round things like that any more. And then in the even older days there was the dreaded OMS which supposedly took care of MIDI connections inside the computer but was one of the most evilly frustrating pieces of software ever invented.

Thanks to both of you re the comments about low level currents etc.

Is it now the case that there is still "Midi", but that it's not based on cables with DIN connectors - but rather uses USB instead? Presumably the software protocols and conventions are still pretty much the same - just the low level hardware details which have changed. It looks to me as though the shift towards USB - at least for domestic/consumer level equipment - started around 2010 - though I have a keyboard from around then which doesn't have USB, but does have MIDI. I'm also guessing that the latest kit will have wireless interfaces - perhaps Bluetooth - maybe WiFi - and might not need wired connections at all - though that might present some reliablilty issues. I have detected moves towards iOS compatibility as well.

I found this page which seems to explain some aspects of the kit available quite well - https://thehub.musiciansfriend.com/k...-how-to-choose - and does start to explain the terminology used (e.g. sequencer, controller ...). I know - "real" musicians used to this electronic/computer stuff will understand the terms already, but some of us don't know our splitters, mergers from our samplers, sequencers, controllers etc.

OMS looks like legacy obsoleted software now - so glad to be told it was a PITA - to be avoided. No need to follow that up!

I also found another piece of free software - MuseScore - which can also drive midi devices, and seems to be able to convert midi files to scores. It can also do transposition, which seems almost immediate. Unfortunately I don't think I can try the Sibelius First package (free) at the moment as it appears to require more available free storage than I have on my MBP laptop right now. I suspect that will do many of the same kinds of things as Crescendo and MuseScore. I might be able to get that or another version of Sibelius working later on, but without a major tidy up on the laptop, or use of another machine - that's not going to happen immediately.

https://musescore.org/en

[Dave2002]

I download midi files from a couple of sites to my keyboards for tracks I play, mainly rock music.

Do you find a significant variability in the midi files you acquire? For classical pieces there may be several people all encoding the same music, but perhaps in different ways. Some might be using an online midi editor, such as this one - https://onlinesequencer.net/37119 Online Sequencer - while others might be using a keyboard and actually playing the pieces in real time. When converted to music notation the results may look rather different. The example I've just given replaces long notes by lots of shorter ones and doesn't look so close to standard printed music, while other versions are much closer.

What do you do with the midi tracks? Do you convert to music notation, or use them as additional tracks while playing? Other?

[MrGongGong]

Is it now the case that there is still "Midi", but that it's not based on cables with DIN connectors - but rather uses USB instead?]

I'm doing several performances at the moment where I use both USB and cabled MIDI controllers so both connection systems do work alongside each other.
There is a tendency to think that technologies "replace" each other when all the evidence is that things run alongside each other and "obsolete" technologies often carry on having uses (or creative abuses) for much longer than the industries who make these things would have us believe.

[Richard Barrett]

There is a tendency to think that technologies "replace" each other when all the evidence is that things run alongside each other and "obsolete" technologies often carry on having uses (or creative abuses) for much longer than the industries who make these things would have us believe.

Yes - there must have been a point when I didn't need to carry any MIDI cables around any more, but I can't even remember exactly when that was.

[Dave2002]

Yes - there must have been a point when I didn't need to carry any MIDI cables around any more, but I can't even remember exactly when that was.

I think we're now at the stage when you won't need to carry any cables - though I don't know what technology will be optimum. This article from 2013 suggests ad-hoc networks and "wi-fi" - https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/wireless-midi - but I think there is now quite a range of midi Bluetooth equipment. This kit supplied by Kenton seems OK - though note the comment re frequency changes in the wireless spectrum used. https://www.kentonuk.com/products/it...distream.shtml

Wireless technology can sometimes cause big problems. I once went to a ballet performance in the US where the band was unable to arrive in time due to very bad weather. The hall was I think under a broadcast transmitter, and additionally there may have been some (analogue) mobile phone networks transmitted from the roof. The music was played from recordings IIRC, but periodically there'd be a "I'm on my way to Walnut, pickup in 10" or similar message presumably from the local taxi firms - due I guess to break through on the wireless channels. It wasn't a total disaster, but it was rather amusing.