Pre Amps

[Stunsworth]

Ah, but the active speakers essentially contain an integrated amp, as I understand...

No just power amps - one for each drive unit, and an electronic crossover.

[jayne lee wilson]

That's the top of the range though
This will do everything for much much less
and you can pick them up for much less n'all
(and I think there's one of these in Mr B's photo of his gear on the Keyboard thread !)

https://www.synthax.co.uk/rme/firewire-usb/rme-babyface-pro/

NOT that i'm suggesting that you are wasting money BUT my original comment was more to do with folks who spend stupid money on daft things (I'll avoid the obvious cryogenically frozen oxygen-free copper mains lead nonsense: winkeye

Well I'll say this for Babyface...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jCuroTbqBI

I never saw a pretty dac look so tough...

[MrGongGong]

Fom the link that you provided it appears as though Synthax (which sounds vaguely reminiscent of Biological Warfare) is pro audiogear. Mytek also has it’s roots in pro audio, and the Manhatten essentially is on of their pro pieces that they (barely) modified for the general consumer market.

So why not buy the gear that was used to record in the first place and costs less but might be in a different shaped box?
Or is sound quality really not the priority ?

[Dave2002]

Well I'll say this for Babyface...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jCuroTbqBI

I never saw a pretty dac look so tough...

Mmmm - I don't get that - but maybe it's just not my scene!

[richardfinegold]

So why not buy the gear that was used to record in the first place and costs less but might be in a different shaped box?
Or is sound quality really not the priority ?

I can barely figure out the consumer version, and I am just scratching the surface re using it’s capabilities.

[richardfinegold]

My guests have departed and I finally regained axis to my guest bedroom/music lounge. Loved to see them, loved to see them go. Anyway, after an absence of several days the Mytek was sounding quite harsh. I then noticed while fiddling with the controls that it has both an analog and digital volume control, and I had been using the digital. Switching to the analog immediately softened the glare. I am listening to the Quartetto Italiano playing Boccherini now and while still detAiled the instruments no longer sound as if the strings had been tightened with a vise. Very interesting.

[Dave2002]

My guests have departed and I finally regained axis to my guest bedroom/music lounge. Loved to see them, loved to see them go. Anyway, after an absence of several days the Mytek was sounding quite harsh. I then noticed while fiddling with the controls that it has both an analog and digital volume control, and I had been using the digital. Switching to the analog immediately softened the glare. I am listening to the Quartetto Italiano playing Boccherini now and while still detailed the instruments no longer sound as if the strings had been tightened with a vise. Very interesting.

Interesting indeed. I have suspected this as a possibility for some time.

[richardfinegold]

Interesting indeed. I have suspected this as a possibility for some time.

I won’t hear from the shop about my pre amp for another few weeks, but if I ever have to buy a new one, I am going to be sure that it has an analog volume control

[Dave2002]

I won’t hear from the shop about my pre amp for another few weeks, but if I ever have to buy a new one, I am going to be sure that it has an analog volume control

I don't understand those digital volume control things well enough. I think it depends how they are implemented. The volume control perhaps ought to be on the amplifier to get the full dynamic range, but then we might get into the realms of digital amplification. Simple volume controls might just drop low order bits from the digital representation of each sample, and shift the data "downwards" - effectively throwing away some of the hi-res data which you've been persuaded to buy. That's really only a problem if the data representation goes below the level which the power amp can handle. Others may use floating point arithmetic, and multiplication, and this is normally good enough, but very slight errors could creep in with each calculation. Normally, if done well, these should be inaudible I think.

Filtering might improve things - but it really does depend how the digital volume control is implemented.

I can't be sure I understand it well enough - but I think there is a danger that with a poorly designed digital volume control on a preamp, that effectively quantisation noise could be introduced, which would then be amplified by the main amp.

Someone may come along and tell me that digital volume controls are OK - and well designed and built - and the maths works out fine - but your discovery suggests that that's not always the case.

[richardfinegold]

I don't understand those digital volume control things well enough. I think it depends how they are implemented. The volume control perhaps ought to be on the amplifier to get the full dynamic range, but then we might get into the realms of digital amplification. Simple volume controls might just drop low order bits from the digital representation of each sample, and shift the data "downwards" - effectively throwing away some of the hi-res data which you've been persuaded to buy. That's really only a problem if the data representation goes below the level which the power amp can handle. Others may use floating point arithmetic, and multiplication, and this is normally good enough, but very slight errors could creep in with each calculation. Normally, if done well, these should be inaudible I think.

Filtering might improve things - but it really does depend how the digital volume control is implemented.

I can't be sure I understand it well enough - but I think there is a danger that with a poorly designed digital volume control on a preamp, that effectively quantisation noise could be introduced, which would then be amplified by the main amp.

Someone may come along and tell me that digital volume controls are OK - and well designed and built - and the maths works out fine - but your discovery suggests that that's not always the case.

Yes, I've had the Mytek for about 2 years but only used it as a DAC, relying on the fully analog pre amps volume control. When I first started using the Mytek as a Pre amp with the digital volume control I thought that it sounded a bit "hard" but it really became apparent when I had a hiatus from it for several days and then listened to a string quartet. There is a slight loss of detail with the analog volume control but the loss of screechiness more than makes up for it. btw, the Mytek has a lot of filter options, and none seem to have made a difference with the digital volume control.

[richardfinegold]

Pre amp returned from the shop today. There was nothing wrong with it; the repair guy thinks it was a faulty power cord. I still had the previous preamp around, a Cary Audio SLP5, it had made a loud buzz when I tried to swap it in for the dead Parasound. A new power cord seems to have righted the problem and I am kicking myself for not trying either pre ampwith a different power cord. In the meantime the Mytek Manhatten DAC that was doubling as a pre amp for the last month had begun to fatigue me with a hardening of the sound. I had connected the Mytek with single ended RCA cables to the power amp, but now I have reconnected it to the pre amp with balanced connections, as it was before the problem developed, and ithe balanced have smoothed out the glare, although I have had to up the volume setting on the preamp.
I’m beginning to see the appeal of one box solutions...

[MrGongGong]

In the meantime the Mytek Manhatten DAC that was doubling as a pre amp for the last month had begun to fatigue me with a hardening of the sound. I had connected the Mytek with single ended RCA cables to the power amp, but now I have reconnected it to the pre amp with balanced connections, as it was before the problem developed, and ithe balanced have smoothed out the glare, although I have had to up the volume setting on the preamp.
.

I'm really not sure of what you mean by these phrases at all ?
(and I have spent all day in a rehearsal talking about timbral changes in a composition so fairly used to talking about sounds.