Pre Amps

[richardfinegold]

My Pre Amp flickered out on me last week. It may be as simple as a fuse or something as costly as involved as a transformer (at least according to what I’ve read). It’s a big heavy beast and was able to open it up with great difficulty, and to my inspection the fuses looked ok, so off it went to the shop and it will be weeks before I know the prognosis.
I have 2 DACs and one of them, the Mytek Manhatten, claims to be a combination Pre amp DAC. I have been using it as a Preamp and am mightily impressed. I only use digital sources. The one thing I haven’t tried is using my second DAC, a Bryston, through the Mytek. I use the Bryston for SACD and Blu Ray so I am just doing without those for now.
Is anyone else here using a DAC as a Pre Amp?

[Dave2002]

Is anyone else here using a DAC as a Pre Amp?

Depends what you mean by pre-amp I guess. If you mean to switch input sources, yes - I do that sometimes. If you mean to boost an analogue signal (e.g. from a cartridge) so that it can drive a power amp, then no - that's not possible with digital inputs, unless the analogue signal passes through an AD converter first. If you mean to do filtering - treble/bass etc., then no. If you mean as a volume control, then yes!

Actually the latest Mytek Manhattan 2 does do analogue as well as digital. Probably the analogue inputs don't go through a digital conversion, but the signals are routed through to the analogue back end circuits - https://mytekdigital.com/hifi/products/manhattan-2/

[johnb]

I have 2 DACs and one of them, the Mytek Manhatten, claims to be a combination Pre amp DAC. I have been using it as a Preamp and am mightily impressed.

I'm very interested to hear your impression of the Mytek.

For some time I have been debating whether to get a combined DAC/Preamp such as the Mytek Brooklyn (can't justify the cost of the Manhatten) or Benchmark to feed my Bryston 4B-SST2 & PMC OB1i speakers. (The obvious choice would be the separate Bryston DAC and Pre Amp but there is no way I can justify the cost.)

I don't follow the HiFi press so the only equivalent to the Mytek that I know of are the various Benchmark models but they are around the much cheaper Brooklyn price point.

[jayne lee wilson]

My T & A Dac 8 offers the facility, but despite other listeners/reviewers preferring it, I found using the separate T & A DAC with my ATC Preamp sonically superior. As dac/pre hooked up directly to the ATC Power amp, the T & A produced a rather dark, softened sound, an obvious system mismatch.

Many Dacs do offer this now. You just have try it in your own system to see what happens...

[Stunsworth]

I use an Audiolab M-DAC directly into a pair of Meridian active speakers. It works well.

[MrGongGong]

I'm very interested to hear your impression of the Mytek.
.

I fail to understand why people buy these things ?
The recordings we listened to are likely to have been made with one of these

https://www.synthax.co.uk/rme/madi-aes/rme-fireface-ufx-plus/

and that's the top end of RME gear
so why not simply use what those who record music use ?

Half the price of the fancy "I saw you coming" kit

https://www.synthax.co.uk/rme/converters/rme-adi-2-pro/

OR is it the packaging people like more ?
I (kind of) understand that some folks don't like the look of rackmount studio gear ......

[jayne lee wilson]

I fail to understand why people buy these things ?
The recordings we listened to are likely to have been made with one of these

https://www.synthax.co.uk/rme/madi-aes/rme-fireface-ufx-plus/

and that's the top end of RME gear
so why not simply use what those who record music use ?

Half the price of the fancy "I saw you coming" kit

https://www.synthax.co.uk/rme/converters/rme-adi-2-pro/

OR is it the packaging people like more ?
I (kind of) understand that some folks don't like the look of rackmount studio gear ......

Very nice I'm sure, but both more than I paid for my 4-month old 2nd hand T & A, and way more than many highly recommended budget esoterica, not to mention Benchmarks etc...

But mainly - those digital workstations, fascinating to live with I guess, just have too many functions most of us mere listeners would never use. You are paying for all of that, too....

Greeted by the RME Fireface fascia, even without a headache or a hangover, might be a bit off-putting. Not so much the looks as the visual complexity...I could say it reminds me of a graphic equaliser but that wouldn't be fair would it?
I don't mind some complexity at the software/media player end (JRiver etc) but maybe not on the component itself. But...yeah, aesthetics matter to some extent, I go for purposeful elegance myself...

[Dave2002]

Never really heard of t+a before, but here is a review of a DAC/preamp from 2013. Sounds good, though should I trust a review which spells “metres” as “meters” if it’s not intended for a US readership?

[MrGongGong]

Very nice I'm sure, but both more than I paid for my 4-month old 2nd hand T & A, and way more than many highly recommended budget esoterica, not to mention Benchmarks etc...

But mainly - those digital workstations, fascinating to live with I guess, just have too many functions most of us mere listeners would never use. You are paying for all of that, too....

Greeted by the RME Fireface fascia, even without a headache or a hangover, might be a bit off-putting. Not so much the looks as the visual complexity...I could say it reminds me of a graphic equaliser but that wouldn't be fair would it?
I don't mind some complexity at the software/media player end (JRiver etc) but maybe not on the component itself. But...yeah, aesthetics matter to some extent, I go for purposeful elegance myself...

Those are NEW prices
Your T & A Dac 8 seems to retail at around £2000

[jayne lee wilson]

Never really heard of t+a before, but here is a review of a DAC/preamp from 2013. Sounds good, though should I trust a review which spells “metres” as “meters” if it’s not intended for a US readership?

Very good Stereophile review of the revised DSD version....(I got the earlier sans-DSD one, broadly the same beast...)

https://www.stereophile.com/content/ta-elektroakustik-dac-8-dsd-da-processor

Very good on the filters, I tend to favour Bezier 2, then 1...
But point is, it matches my system very well, with the ATC/Harbeth combo... similar "design philosophy" really. And I do like the way it looks.

I only take the HiFINews/Stereophile reviews seriously now (well, one or two websites if they seem to know their way about, e.g. Michael Lavorgna) and got my T&A following dear, late John Bamford's 2012 review - but I had to wait for outrageous luck to visit me in 2013 to afford it...
(the original model, sketchier but broadly accurate review...(not good on the filters, they are useful...

https://www.whathifi.com/ta/dac-8/review

Here's the webpage.... (designed and built in Germany, the vorspring durch technik of HiFi...)

https://www.ta-hifi.de/en/audiosystems/series-8/dac-8-dsd/

GG - your RME is nearly 2.5k, so.... but I almost never buy new, anyway... I try to wait & keep watch, scan the classifieds until... but your luck comes and goes, like IRL... and as I said, there are some very good sub-£1000 Dacs around now, I lived for 4 happy years with the Cambridge DacMagic, revised version ca.£250 .....

Computer Audio has led to a huge R&D effort in the last few years... almost too much choice, really.

[richardfinegold]

Depends what you mean by pre-amp I guess. If you mean to switch input sources, yes - I do that sometimes. If you mean to boost an analogue signal (e.g. from a cartridge) so that it can drive a power amp, then no - that's not possible with digital inputs, unless the analogue signal passes through an AD converter first. If you mean to do filtering - treble/bass etc., then no. If you mean as a volume control, then yes!

Actually the latest Mytek Manhattan 2 does do analogue as well as digital. Probably the analogue inputs don't go through a digital conversion, but the signals are routed through to the analogue back end circuits - https://mytekdigital.com/hifi/products/manhattan-2/

I probably wasn’t clear enough in my OP. I only use digital sources, and I understand that turntables need some sort of phono Pre amp

[richardfinegold]

I'm very interested to hear your impression of the Mytek.

For some time I have been debating whether to get a combined DAC/Preamp such as the Mytek Brooklyn (can't justify the cost of the Manhatten) or Benchmark to feed my Bryston 4B-SST2 & PMC OB1i speakers. (The obvious choice would be the separate Bryston DAC and Pre Amp but there is no way I can justify the cost.)

I don't follow the HiFi press so the only equivalent to the Mytek that I know of are the various Benchmark models but they are around the much cheaper Brooklyn price point.

I have the Mytek Manhatten I, and I’m the second owner, and at the time of purchase 2 years ago it cost me only around an extra thousand as a used unit compared to the Brooklyn. Now the price differential between the 2 units New is about 4K—ouch! Anyway,I had never used it as a pre amp, only as a DAC. Without having the pre amp around to do A/B comparisons
I can’t be defiinitive, but it seems at least as capable, if not better, than with Pre in the system.
My advice, John, and this is offered by someone that also has a Bryston DAC, would be to go for the Brooklyn as a pre Amp and DAC. If you wish you can always add a pre later

[MrGongGong]

GG - your RME is nearly 2.5k, so.... but I almost never buy new, anyway... I try to wait & keep watch, scan the classifieds until... but your luck comes and goes, like IRL... and as I said, there are some very good sub-£1000 Dacs around now, I lived for 4 happy years with the Cambridge DacMagic, revised version ca.£250 .....
.

That's the top of the range though
This will do everything for much much less
and you can pick them up for much less n'all
(and I think there's one of these in Mr B's photo of his gear on the Keyboard thread !)

https://www.synthax.co.uk/rme/firewire-usb/rme-babyface-pro/

NOT that i'm suggesting that you are wasting money BUT my original comment was more to do with folks who spend stupid money on daft things (I'll avoid the obvious cryogenically frozen oxygen-free copper mains lead nonsense: winkeye:)

[richardfinegold]

I use an Audiolab M-DAC directly into a pair of Meridian active speakers. It works well.

Ah, but the active speakers essentially contain an integrated amp, as I understand...

[richardfinegold]

I fail to understand why people buy these things ?
The recordings we listened to are likely to have been made with one of these

https://www.synthax.co.uk/rme/madi-aes/rme-fireface-ufx-plus/

and that's the top end of RME gear
so why not simply use what those who record music use ?

Half the price of the fancy "I saw you coming" kit

https://www.synthax.co.uk/rme/converters/rme-adi-2-pro/

OR is it the packaging people like more ?
I (kind of) understand that some folks don't like the look of rackmount studio gear ......

Fom the link that you provided it appears as though Synthax (which sounds vaguely reminiscent of Biological Warfare) is pro audiogear. Mytek also has it’s roots in pro audio, and the Manhatten essentially is on of their pro pieces that they (barely) modified for the general consumer market.