Problems with iCloud

[Dave2002]

Upgrading to High Sierra and indeed some of the other more recent Mac OS versions may give some benefits. It may also provide some very serious headaches.

These may even be security issues - it's difficult to tell.

1. Contacts disappear unless iCloud is turned on. Actually it's not quite that simple, but Apple may copy all the Contact information up to its iCloud. Some data may remain, but not necessarily all of it. To see all the data iCloud "should" be on - but personally I'm totally against that. I don't see why I need to be connected, and in any case why should I trust Apple any more than any other third party agent - which is probably going to be my next point.

2. In the High Sierra upgrade Calendars also disappear unless iCloud is turned on. Worse, it is possible that the calendars can be affected by Calendar spam - which I have no idea as yet how to get rid of. I was beginning to like Apple's Calendar implementations - as long as the calendars are local to my machine, but now I absolutely hate these, and my calendars have effectively been trashed.

See https://9to5mac.com/2016/11/30/apple...cking-senders/

https://www.reddit.com/r/applehelp/comments/53z1ru/calendar_on_iphone_randomly_having_an_event_in/?st=jd6xs1vb&sh=a36cdcc8

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7761778

https://mybroadband.co.za/news/software/189632-how-to-delete-mac-and-ios-calendar-spam-without-letting-spammers-know.html

Basically this is appalling. It's all very well Apple and others trying to work on fixes within the iCloud or email, but if the calendar application had remained as a local application in the first place - completely locked down - with no outside interference, then this could not have happened.

It is total rubbish - though I'm not convinced that trashing all my Apple products and switching to Windows or another OS will overcome or avoid problems like this.

I have been wary of clouds for years, though nobody seems to listen to me. I may decide to go back to Filofax after all.

[Frances_iom]

Apple, Google and Microsoft are driven by one desire - to lock you into a walled garden after which they can, as Adam Smith warned, charge monopoly rents to you (as in Microsoft for annual subscriptions or Apple via its forced upgrade path for single sourced equipment) or advertisers for access to individual users(google) -

[MrGongGong]

The "simple" solution is to avoid using Apple software
This IS getting harder (and I found I had to have a version of the Evil Garage Band on my computer to unpack something I was sent to work on) but there are plenty of other things to use.
Having said that Apple machines are getting worse in terms of connectivity.
One of my reasons for using a laptop is so I can make wierdo live electronic music on the beach off the North coast of Shetland and not need to be constantly online.

[cloughie]

One of my reasons for using a laptop is so I can make wierdo live electronic music on the beach off the North coast of Shetland and not need to be constantly online.

So it's you who is polluting the peace of the Isles!

[french frank]

Apple, Google and Microsoft are driven by one desire - to lock you into a walled garden after which they can, as Adam Smith warned, charge monopoly rents to you (as in Microsoft for annual subscriptions or Apple via its forced upgrade path for single sourced equipment) or advertisers for access to individual users(google) -

Well, I've never worked out how to use iCloud, but have now managed to 'master' BTCloud so I don't need it anyway.

Maybe BT have similarly monopolistic tendencies: I downloaded Ubuntu a few years ago but couldn't get it to work. Online searches suggested that it didn't like BTHubs.

In any case, I'm not a hoarder and don't need additional storage beyond back-up hardrives. I don't use my cloud for storage, just for making files &c temporarily available on different machines. I regularly dump old stuff from my computer - especially since my brain does not store the necessary knowledge to allow me to remember what old files are, and what I wanted them for.

[Dave2002]

The "simple" solution is to avoid using Apple software
This IS getting harder (and I found I had to have a version of the Evil Garage Band on my computer to unpack something I was sent to work on) but there are plenty of other things to use.
Having said that Apple machines are getting worse in terms of connectivity.
One of my reasons for using a laptop is so I can make wierdo live electronic music on the beach off the North coast of Shetland and not need to be constantly online.

Hi Mrgg

Each time Apple updates its systems it seems to make it harder to avoid using its iCloud. I don't dislike all Apple software - some is really rather good. Apart from the monopolistic tendencies which Frances has reminded us of, I am very wary of making all of my data available on external sites - and no it's not porn or anything remotely like that. Apple is now "kindly" "offering" to store all desktop files in its cloud, so if you create a file with a list of your bank accounts, or passwords, or even anything which probably shouldn't be posted elsewhere, iCloud may grab it and store it. This uses up internet bandwidth (uploads/downloads) and potentially exposes the end user to hazards.

OK - Apple say that their cloud is secure - and completely private. Sure .... You send me the details of all your bank accounts and passwords in a sealed envelope, and I'll promise exactly the same thing!

The claim is that the software systems and algorithms used are also secure - but having said that the Apple server systems themselves have been hacked - which doesn't suggest that they are as secure and safe as they should be.

OK - another tweak. It seems that having put data - or been forced to do so or face having a non functioning system - I can now disable some of the applications so that the data now resides back on my machine. Maybe - but there is still at least one copy out in somebody else's server system - which I never wanted to happen in the first place.

Next - it's possible to disable virtually all the iCloud features. Yes - but it requires effort and awareness, which many users don't have. Why should I have to go through loads of tick boxes trying to make sure that everything I didn't want in the first place gets disabled?

It was only when I did this move to High Sierra that I discovered the problem with Calendar spamming. It had not been a problem when the calendar only "lived" on my machine. OK - I found out how to put things back - but that's only taken an hour or so of my life/time and could happen again.

I still haven't fully figured out the Contacts. I seem to have a choice - either have a local version which is not quite correct - and which doesn't cooperate as well as I'd like with mail, or have iCloud turned on for mail, which may expose other problems.

I am sadly not convinced that other vendors - Windows (Microsoft), Google, Amazon are any better in the way they handle users' data though.

[MrGongGong]

So it's you who is polluting the peace of the Isles!

I don't play it through loudspeakers, god forbid

[MrGongGong]

Hi Mrgg

Each time Apple updates its systems it seems to make it harder to avoid using its iCloud. I don't dislike all Apple software - some is really rather good. Apart from the monopolistic tendencies which Frances has reminded us of, I am very wary of making all of my data available on external sites - and no it's not porn or anything remotely like that. Apple is now "kindly" "offering" to store all desktop files in its cloud, so if you create a file with a list of your bank accounts, or passwords, or even anything which probably shouldn't be posted elsewhere, iCloud may grab it and store it. This uses up internet bandwidth (uploads/downloads) and potentially exposes the end user to hazards.

OK - Apple say that their cloud is secure - and completely private. Sure .... You send me the details of all your bank accounts and passwords in a sealed envelope, and I'll promise exactly the same thing!

The claim is that the software systems and algorithms used are also secure - but having said that the Apple server systems themselves have been hacked - which doesn't suggest that they are as secure and safe as they should be.

OK - another tweak. It seems that having put data - or been forced to do so or face having a non functioning system - I can now disable some of the applications so that the data now resides back on my machine. Maybe - but there is still at least one copy out in somebody else's server system - which I never wanted to happen in the first place.

Next - it's possible to disable virtually all the iCloud features. Yes - but it requires effort and awareness, which many users don't have. Why should I have to go through loads of tick boxes trying to make sure that everything I didn't want in the first place gets disabled?

It was only when I did this move to High Sierra that I discovered the problem with Calendar spamming. It had not been a problem when the calendar only "lived" on my machine. OK - I found out how to put things back - but that's only taken an hour or so of my life/time and could happen again.

I still haven't fully figured out the Contacts. I seem to have a choice - either have a local version which is not quite correct - and which doesn't cooperate as well as I'd like with mail, or have iCloud turned on for mail, which may expose other problems.

I am sadly not convinced that other vendors - Windows (Microsoft), Google, Amazon are any better in the way they handle users' data though.

I share your pain
I've more or less given up on Mail as it's unreliable (though not as bad as Time Machine which should be avoided at all costs IMV)
I don't think anyone else IS better though

I've not "upgraded" my main machine past Yosemite as it's asking for me to update something I hardly use but have to pay for the update and it's likely that some of the things I do use all the time won't work. I tend to look at the CeC list (Canadian Electracoustic Community) which is full of folks who live in studios, so when a new OS arrives it only takes a few minutes for the "It doesn't work with Pro-Tools" messages to start). Is there something similar for your line of activity?

[Dave2002]

I share your pain
I've more or less given up on Mail as it's unreliable (though not as bad as Time Machine which should be avoided at all costs IMV)
I don't think anyone else IS better though

I've not "upgraded" my main machine past Yosemite as it's asking for me to update something I hardly use but have to pay for the update and it's likely that some of the things I do use all the time won't work. I tend to look at the CeC list (Canadian Electracoustic Community) which is full of folks who live in studios, so when a new OS arrives it only takes a few minutes for the "It doesn't work with Pro-Tools" messages to start). Is there something similar for your line of activity?

If you're relatively happy with Yosemite and it works with your software I'd suggest sticking with that. A move to El Capitan if you've not already tried it might be OK, but for the reasons outlined above I would suggest being very wary of Sierra and High Sierra. The trouble you may face is that eventually the wheels will start to drop off your software and OS - though I still have one machine with Snow Leopard. I have many times thought of installing Parallels, and getting virtual systems working. I have always balked at the process though - but I have had virtual systems working in the past. The trouble with virtual systems is that there may be a performance hit, and there may be some compatibility issues, particularly with hardware. There are good things though - if good copies can be kept intact then if anything bad happens simply wipe the virtual image and re-install a good one - possibly very useful in any fight against malware.

I did upgrade one machine (not mine - not even in my family) to El Capitan which took a while, and I think it has been working quite well since - before that it was getting hot and nothing we could do to get the OS patched would fix the problem. However its replacement has now arrived, and that machine may be decommissioned soon - though that may show up yet more snags.

Re my line of activity - which is varied - I could probably have kept going for a year or two more with the system as it was on the MBP, but with the battery problem and an imminent trip to have the battery replaced, I thought I'd do the upgrades and see how they went.

I don't seem to have as much of a dislike of Apple Mail and Time Machine as you do. Mostly I have made these work for me. Which mail system do you prefer? Re Time Machine I have tried Super Duper and CCC, and probably find CCC better - and I do use that for making bootable clone systems. I use TM at times as it's quite easy, but I don't normally rely on it 100%.

Re the update to High Sierra most software seems to work, and I'm probably less hardware dependent than you. I haven't done a rigorous test yet, but most seems OK. One recent small bit of hardware which doesn't work with all the systems is the DacMagic thing for a tad under £40 for headphone use - Richer sounds - discussed on a bargain thread around here. It doesn't work with Qobuz under Sierra - not tested on HS yet. Otherwise that gadget does work.

The big thing I'm very anti is Apple migrating some of my data to its iCloud, and then changing the behaviour for local operation.

I don't want to revert back to Windows - if anything I think that would be a lot worse, and although I do use Linux/Unix sometimes, I do find that it's not good enough for a lot of what I want to do, though there is some good software for video editing - e.g. Blender and DaVinci Resolve which can be bludgeoned into working - with a bit of headache.

[Anastasius]

I think that the main reason for pushing stuff to iCloud is to support Apple's idea that isn't it clever that I can start typing a sentence on my iPhone (not that I have one) and finish it off on my iMac. No, Apple, it's pointless for 99.999999999999999999% of your users.

I DO use iCloud but for Safari as it's so useful being able to wander between two iMacs and not have to worry abut bookmarks, login details (although as mentioned in another thread perhaps not such a good idea).

[Dave2002]

If people really want to use the iCloud and all of it's features that’s OK - for them. One shouldn’t have to enable it at all unless one really wishes to use it, and understands the issues.

[Anastasius]

I have to agree with you especially when this situation arises.

I log on to one iMac and now it's asking me for my iCloud username and password. Hasn't done that for a long time. So I put it in and it comes back at me and asks for it again....and again...and again. I hit cancel but I can still access all the 'Cloudy' stuff that one would expect. This problem did crop up several years ago and I had a lengthy session with Level 2 support including sending them copious data. Never heard a dicky-bird and it went away.

Of far more annoyance is that more and more sites are not working properly with safari (which I cannot upgrade anymore unless I migrate up to El C). Safari is not alone. Some bank sites won't work with Chrome. Another one wont work with Firefox. All in all it's a bit of a PITA.

Now factor in all those bloody web designers who are busily making websites unusable for desktop users...eg Presto Classical. UK Workshop. I think I might just take up macrame.