Proms 2017 in FLAC

**johnb** · 17-07-17, 17:42

cmr_for3, the question about programmes such as the Applian is "at what stage in the Windows processing is the data picked up?". This is pretty important and is often not specified. Some programmes even pick up the data at the analogue stage and then re-digitize it. IMO Total Recorder is a safer bet overall.

**cmr_for3** · 17-07-17, 19:14

Originally posted by johnb View Post

cmr_for3, the question about programmes such as the Applian is "at what stage in the Windows processing is the data picked up?". This is pretty important and is often not specified. Some programmes even pick up the data at the analogue stage and then re-digitize it. IMO Total Recorder is a safer bet overall.

That's useful and makes me think about investing in total recorder. The older version I had which I have lost must be 10 years old

**robk** · 17-07-17, 21:00

Originally posted by johnb View Post

robk, Total Recorder works differently to Audacity (and IMO is preferable in this context).

Well I have taken the plunge and installed Total Recorder. Now have to work out how to use it.

**Cockney Sparrow** · 17-07-17, 23:19

Let Total Recorder user speak to other Total Recorder users…….

On going
Options -> Recording Source and Parameters (or just the "Parameters" button)
And on the "Recording Source and Parameters" pop up page (towards top) - selecting at "Audio Recording Source" - "Software"
and then selecting the "Change" Tab on Recording Format at the bottom of the pop-up page it takes you to the

"Media Format" pop up. Leaving the "convert audio format to the one specified below" box unticked and then in "File Type (format)" drop down menu selecting "FLAC…." it provides a file type (from the properties in the recorded file, after it was saved) of PCM. In fact the setting "Auto…" can be selected instead of "FLAC" and the resulting file type is still PCM. (Postscript - given johnb's post below, I think it makes no difference about "Auto"/"Flac" etc in the file type - because the box above is not ticked)

And the properties of the PCM file depend on the properties selected on the Win 7 Control panel setting for the audio hardware. Hence I selected FM radio level 32,000khz and the file - stated to be PCM had that property. Changing the Win 7 setting to 48,000khz, and then 44100khz changed the resulting PCM file to the type of file of that setting.

(The setting on the Sounds control panel I changed relate to loudspeakers connected to the motherboard output (standard onboard audio, i5 processor motherboard) by a USB cable into a USB input on loudspeakers which carry their own inbuilt DAC).

So, can I conclude that Total Recorder is capturing the digital stream from the Firefox browser and saving the digital data without intervention or conversion? (even if it has decided to save it in a PCM file format).

My natural instinct would be to seek a FLAC file, saving the data in the high quality now available, but without the extravagant file size of PCM. I wonder whether I would lose quality by selecting the tick box "convert audio format to the one specified below" and choosing a conversion (so during the recording) into a high quality FLAC file. Otherwise I am left to convert the PCM file into a FLAC after recording in a separate operation

**johnb** · 17-07-17, 23:51

Originally posted by Cockney Sparrow View Post

Let Total Recorder user speak to other Total Recorder users…….
On going
Options -> Recording Source and Parameters (or just the "Parameters" button)
And on the "Recording Source and Parameters" pop up page (towards top) - selecting at "Audio Recording Source" - "Software"

This setting is the one recommended by Total Recorder

Originally posted by Cockney Sparrow View Post

and then selecting the "Change" Tab on Recording Format at the bottom of the pop-up page it takes you to the

"Media Format" pop up. Leaving the "convert audio format to the one specified below" box unticked and then in "File Type (format)" drop down menu selecting "FLAC…." it provides a file type (from the properties in the recorded file, after it was saved) of PCM. In fact the setting "Auto…" can be selected instead of "FLAC" and the resulting file type is still PCM.

This is where I differ with you. I prefer Total Recorder set to No Conversion, i.e. with the "Convert audio format to the one specified below" box unticked.

This will result in saving the data as PCM. Most people will probably want to do some minor editing of the resulting file, e.g. trimming the start and end. Most audio editing software can edit both FLAC and PCM but if it is editing a FLAC file, the file will be slower to load because the editing software will usually be converting it back to PCM before you do any editing (then converting it back to FLAC as you save the edited result) - so IMO it is quicker to save the data as PCM, edit the PCM file and then convert it to FLAC (either by "Save as FLAC" from the editing software or, say, by using FLAC Frontend)

However, if you do tick the "Convert ..." box and select Format "FLAC" with Attributes 48/16 there should be no loss of quality.

Originally posted by Cockney Sparrow View Post

And the properties of the PCM file depend on the properties selected on the Win 7 Control panel setting for the audio hardware. Hence I selected FM radio level 32,000khz and the file - stated to be PCM had that property. Changing the Win 7 setting to 48,000khz, and then 44100khz changed the resulting PCM file to the type of file of that setting.

(The setting on the Sounds control panel I changed relate to loudspeakers connected to the motherboard output (standard onboard audio, i5 processor motherboard) by a USB cable into a USB input on loudspeakers which carry their own inbuilt DAC).

Yes you need to set the Windows "Sound" to 48/16 for the relevant device - my PC only has headphones connected and the device that affects the format seen by Total Recorder is "Playback: Headphones". If it had speakers it would probably have been "Playback: Speakers". (I gave details of how to change the audio format setting in an earlier post.)

Once again, as I wrote previously, two other things need to be set, both of which affect the sound level of the saved file:

1) Set the volume on the BBC FLAC player at maximum (11)

2) Click on the loudspeaker in the taskbar, click on "Mixer" and set the volume control for Firefox at 100%. This will make it very loud to listen to on the computer but it will result in the saved file having the volume levels closest to those of the original stream.

**Cockney Sparrow** · 18-07-17, 09:25

Thanks for the input johnb. Particularly about leaving in PCM for quicker editing (I only have random awareness of such "under the bonnet" matters).

I've amended my post to put in bold that actually I was using the "Convert audio format to the one specified below" box unticked - and added that I think it overrides anything there about selection of file types.

As to the Firefox volume setting I was at first perplexed by the reference to the mixer - all I can get to on the FLAC stream window where there is a loudspeaker logo is to take the volume to max by using the mouse to take the vertical bars to the max of 11. Finding no other way, I presume this has had the effect you describe. (Also to mention, I'm lucky, my speakers have a remote handset control for volume).

I'm happy, it seems I have found a way to capture the Barenboim Prom re-broadcast in FLAC when I have to be out this afternoon. My only concern is that I will need to keep an eye on my hard disc free memory whilst I queue the Prom recordings in my own "listen again"

Postscript - your comment about easier editing in PCM - well a number of things are decidedly quicker - bringing up a sound image, saving the file . Well worth the greater file size. Thanks.

**Bryn** · 19-07-17, 15:22

A major problem had emerged re. the FLAC stream. If I try to access it via http://www.bbc.co.uk/taster/projects...concert-sound2 , I now get an error message, "The page at https://radio-3-concert-sound2.pilot...edstudio.co.uk says: For security reasons, framing is not allowed.", and the FLAC steam will not play. Anyone here know how to get round this? I know I am not the only one to get this problem. The binaural experiment seems to be working, however. It's just the FLAC stream which leads to the error pop-up.

**johnb** · 19-07-17, 15:38

I have exactly the same problem.

VLC can still play the FLAC stream - so the steam is still running.

Can other people try to access the FLAC stream via the BBC website and post whether they are successful or not?

**Bryn** · 19-07-17, 15:48

Originally posted by johnb View Post

I have exactly the same problem.

VLC can still play the FLAC stream - so the steam is still running.

Can other people try to access the FLAC stream via the BBC website and post whether they are successful or not?

Just to make it crystal clear, the VLC johnb is referring to is the nightly build of 3.0.0 to be found at https://nightlies.videolan.org/ , not the bog standard VLC player.

**robk** · 19-07-17, 15:56

Same problem for me. I can access the stream through VLC 3.0.0

**jayne lee wilson** · 19-07-17, 16:02

Originally posted by johnb View Post

I have exactly the same problem.

VLC can still play the FLAC stream - so the steam is still running.

Can other people try to access the FLAC stream via the BBC website and post whether they are successful or not?

I'm afraid the same thing happens from there too.... searched everywhere but can't find a solution. Chucked out Firefox, reinstalled... no joy....

Stumped. Bit of a pity with the Dusapin coming up....

**Cockney Sparrow** · 19-07-17, 16:06

Same problem for me in Firefox. What does it mean, anyway? (other than I can't access the FLAC stream).

I had a look at the VLC page - looks as though I'm downloading a build of the VLC programme. As I've never used any version, I went no further..

**johnb** · 19-07-17, 16:12

Originally posted by Cockney Sparrow View Post

Same problem for me in Firefox. What does it mean, anyway? (other than I can't access the FLAC stream).

I had a look at the VLC page - looks as though I'm downloading a build of the VLC programme. As I've never used any version, I went no further..

Look at your inbox.

**Bryn** · 19-07-17, 16:15

By good chance I had left the FLAC stream running on one laptop. I dare not now stop it. I will soon be trying out the VLC nightly build 3.0.0 route but that will have to await the end of the binaural version of the Beethoven PC3 I which is currently playing from the BBC Taster site. Good job I do not dispose of older laptops when I get a new one.

**johnb** · 19-07-17, 16:16

To use VLC you need to download and install one of the recent nightly builds for version 3.0.0 (at the bottom of the list of nightlies.

VLC media player continuous nightly builds - VideoLAN

https://nightlies.videolan.org/

Install, then:

Media
Open network stream
Use URL:

Code:

https://vs-dash-ww-rd-live.bbcfmt.hs.llnwd.net/al/lossless/client_manifest.mpd

Proms 2017 in FLAC

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