Radio 3 being broadcast in FLAC

[johnb]

It is fairly easy to record the stream on Windows using, for example, Audacity, TotalRecorder, etc, etc but (on Windows) the question is what exactly are you recording? These software packages take the data from somewhere in the Windows processing chain, but it often not specified where. Some might even re-digitize the analogue output of the soundboard. As I understand it Total Recorder takes the data after it has been processed by Windows mixer but before the soundboard.

In any event, my understanding is that the things that can adversely affect the result are:

- The volume level on the BBC player. (Should be at the maximum (level 11).

- The default bit depth and sample rate for the relevant devices need to be set to the same as the stream (i.e. 16/48000) in the Windows Sound panel: select device, click on Properties, Advanced Tab, Default Format). Otherwise Windows will automatically resample the audio to the Windows default setting for the device.

- The Windows Mixer volume levels for the relevant devices. Should be set to 100%.

[Zucchini]

... in the Gubaidulina, one of my all time favourites, and the "Concert Sound" meant w recorded it.I could hear better Sofia's intensity and passion. And Guzman was really up for it. Did I hear him say "the best violin concerto of the 20th century"?

I'll listen on iplayer. If Guzman said that I'll make In Tempus Praesens equal first! On her ITP CD the Magnificent Mutter pours out a haughty, queenly virtually continuous narrative of staggering beauty supported by Gergiev in brilliant form. Mesmerising (I believe Simone Lamsma has now recorded it. Would love to see Baiba Skride play either/both!)

[Beresford]

. I suspect this may be the result of the errors introduced by the Windows processing. I certainly think that the AAC feed sound better when I bypass it. Unfortunately I can't bypass it on the FLAC feed because foobar2000 will not play it, and VLC does not have bit-transparent output (it has been on their bug list at low priority since 2010.)

This issue (can't bypass windows mixer) has bugged me for a long time. Like you I can bypass the Windows mixer by using Foobar (with WASAPI or Kernel streaming) on the live 320kbps stream, but I have yet to find a way round the mixer when playing the FLAC stream, or the iPlayer on-demand. Such a pity, as the differences are quite audible. Do you know if this is an iPlayer (for Windows) issue, as output is always sent to the Windows mixer, or is the problem in Foobar or VLC or Audacity? Should I raise the matter with the BBC iPlayer team?

[Bryn]

File under "Best laid plans ... ":

My attempts at recording from the FLAC stream using a USB to S/PDIF module feeding my new Tascam DR-100 mk3 recorder were a wash-out. Not mentioned in any of the printed material which comes with the Tascam, or indeed in any online info I have come across, is the fact that the digital input for the Tascam only records input greater than -54dB! Only when one downloads the technical manual does one find, "In DIGITAL mode, recording starts automatically when the input signal exceeds the fixed standard level (−54 dB)" .This means that music of widely varying dynamics, such as most Radio 3's material, gets saved in a series of chunks of whatever exceeds -54dB, with the rest remaining unrecorded. I will be writing to Tascam suggesting they make this auto record default re. the S/PDIF input switchable in a future firmware update. Why they impose the current limitation is beyond me.

[johnb]

This issue (can't bypass windows mixer) has bugged me for a long time. Like you I can bypass the Windows mixer by using Foobar (with WASAPI or Kernel streaming) on the live 320kbps stream, but I have yet to find a way round the mixer when playing the FLAC stream, or the iPlayer on-demand. Such a pity, as the differences are quite audible. Do you know if this is an iPlayer (for Windows) issuee, as output is always sent to the Windows mixer, or is the problem in Foobar or VLC or Audacity? Should I raise the matter with the BBC iPlayer team?

My understanding is that you can minimise the effects of Windows Mixer by:

Setting the bit depth and sample frequency to the same as the internet stream (16/48k) for the devices concerned in Sounds (I usually set all the devices, just to make sure). This is important.

Setting the volume on the BBC iPlayer or web page to the maximum (11) and setting the volume of the Windows Mixer devices to 100%. (Of course, if you are listening on the computer you will want to use the volume settings.)

These should ensure that Windows does not resample and leaves the volume level unchanged.

[Bryn]

Well, despite having been due to end at 00:30 this morning, the FLAC test has continued TtN and is playing now. Let's hope they forget to switch it off.

[ChrisBennell]

Well it does seem to be still working this morning. Long may it continue.

I have been playing with recording these broadcast streams through Audacity for a couple of weeks. The results seem reasonably good, although I can't be definitive about what I've ended up with. I also set the frequency in Audacity to 48K, and the volume level on the webpage to maximum. I am using an external sound card (Creative Sound Blaster) on my desktop, and it all works. Except the output volume is a little quiet, though - but that's no different from what I get from normal BBC broadcasts. It does get a bit louder, though, when I export the audio from Audacity to another Flac file - which I can subsequently play in Windows Media Player, or use to create a CD - which I have just done (Bartok Viola Concerto, and VW Pastoral Symphony)! I also use the amplification feature in Audacity quite regularly to perk things up a bit.

Interestingly, I have achieved the best results when recording from AllofBach.com - where the sound is superb and the volume at a better level.

[goldnet]

Hi all

I read about the FLAC stream coming in for the Proms (very excited!) but missed getting my gear set up for the Radio 3 FLAC stream test in time to listen to the wonderful LSO/Roth concert broadcast on 25 April, let alone manage a capture. I was at the concert and would very much like to test my ear's ability to distinguish my good FM recording and a capture of the HD iPlayer stream - and to compare with my memory of the night.

I did PM a couple of members who mentioned recording the stream but now my registration is validated can post more widely. I don't suppose, by any chance, anyone got a capture of this concert from the FLAC stream they'd be prepared to share ?

kind regards
goldnet

[Beresford]

...

Interestingly, I have achieved the best results when recording from AllofBach.com - where the sound is superb and the volume at a better level.

Yes the sound from AoB is good- presumably it uses some sort of java player downloaded with the web page. Does anyone know where I can find out about Java players, as distinct from iTunes, Foobar, etc?

[David-G]

No posts in this thread since May. No comments on the "Concert Sound" broadcasts of the Proms? Or is there another thread on this that I have missed? If someone could draw my attention to it I would be grateful! Thanks, David.

[johnb]

David:

http://www.for3.org/forums/showthread.php?17425-Proms-2017-in-FLAC