Extracting SACD layer from Blu Ray Player

[Sir Velo]

I have a Sony BDP-S7200 which plays SACDs. I thought it would be worthwhile hooking it up to my Audiolab DAC+ to hear the SACD layer on my small number of hybrid SACDs. Sadly, the DAC+ does not have an HDMI port so the only way of achieving the desired result is to connect the BDP via an HDMI audio extractor/splitter to the Optical port on the DAC. While the DAC's display clearly indicated a connection, with PCM 88.196k reading, audio came there not. Checking the connection, it was clear that this was OK as the standard CD layer output audio clearly. So, why would there be no sound from the Hi Res feed? While understanding the rights issues involved in sending high resolution audio to non licensed bits of kit, if the feed is being registered by the DAC why there is no sound defeats me.

Anyone on the boards had experience of getting DSD or PCM 24/96 from a blu ray player to a DAC which doesn't have an HDMI input?

[richardfinegold]

I don't think it can be done easily. I bought a Bryston BDA -3 DAC for precisely this reason. My Oppo 105 is configured to output DSD from SACD, and the DAC has HDMI inputs, so now I get the DSD direct from the SACD.
There is a complicated work around involving Play Station. You can google it from audiophile web sites. It sounds way to complicated for me.
There is 1 other high end DAC that will accept HDMI, and that is the NAD M51. Used version are going for about a third the price of the Bryston.

[Dave2002]

I have experienced similar, but perhaps not quite the same, issues with other kit. I have an (now) old Oppo DVD/SACD player. It will play SACDs and also DVD-As. As far as I can remember it was possible to send output from the DVD-As, but the SACDs were impossible. Looking at the details available at the time it looked as though most machines blocked output of any SACD sourced material over digital links. It was also impossible to rip SACDs in any way.

I think things have moved on now, and more may be possible, but basically I think that with a lot of kit it is likely to be difficult or very difficult to play or extract sound from SACDs in any way which tries to circumvent the 'protections' built in.

[richardfinegold]

I have experienced similar, but perhaps not quite the same, issues with other kit. I have an (now) old Oppo DVD/SACD player. It will play SACDs and also DVD-As. As far as I can remember it was possible to send output from the DVD-As, but the SACDs were impossible. Looking at the details available at the time it looked as though most machines blocked output of any SACD sourced material over digital links. It was also impossible to rip SACDs in any way.

I think things have moved on now, and more may be possible, but basically I think that with a lot of kit it is likely to be difficult or very difficult to play or extract sound from SACDs in any way which tries to circumvent the 'protections' built in.

Not sure what Oppo you have. Both the 103 and 105 can be configured to output DSD from SACD. At any rate, they have just been discontinued but hopefully their new players will have the same capability

[Dave2002]

Not sure what Oppo you have. Both the 103 and 105 can be configured to output DSD from SACD. At any rate, they have just been discontinued but hopefully their new players will have the same capability

I haven't bothered to check lately - I think it's the 5 channel version which allegedly had better audio, and I still use it occasionally as a DVD player.
I believe I was able to get an output via an optical cable to feed into my Sony Blu Ray surround sound system - but it only worked with DVD-A, not with SACD. There may have been other problems as well, as using optical cables limits the audio anyway, but I do recall managing it, and trying to listen to the Sea Symphony by Vaughan Williams (Naxos) in surround sound - DVD-A. This verified that the player worked, and also that the connections worked, but not as soon as an SACD disc was inserted.

It was at that time, and after substantial reading that I realised that the only hope at the time of getting an output to feed elsewhere was by the use of HDMI - but the HDMI "standard" was varying a bit at that time. I think not all HDMI outputs would do audio and not all AV amps/receivers at the time would pick up the audio. Trying to link HDMI units together by the use of intermediate convertors/cables is not always going to work either, as there are deliberate fixes to prevent HD content from being transferred. There may be some (possibly "dodgy"? - depending on your point of view) converters which avoid such constraints.

Another issue was whether the player would actually just output PCM having done an internal (on the fly) conversion from DSD to PCM. I recall poring over manuals and settings for some while before coming to the conclusion (then) that it was probably going to be more trouble than it was worth. I also came across the suggestion for using a PS3 - some models can apparently do DSD - but not all.

I think things have moved on a bit now, but it's still possible that SACD outputs will be blocked. You have obviously found a way which works. I do also think there is ripping software available, and pros can access it and use it, but mere consumers may have a great deal of difficulty obtaining such, and using the tools. There may be at least one deliberate barrier - cost, and possibly some form of licensing/registration to avoid pirates getting at the content.

[richardfinegold]

I think you might have an Oppo 83. The 103 and 105 both play Blu Ray and as mentioned will output DSD from SACD, but only over HDMI. The trick is to have something that can accept the HDMI

[mahlerei]

I have a Sony BDP-S7200 which plays SACDs. I thought it would be worthwhile hooking it up to my Audiolab DAC+ to hear the SACD layer on my small number of hybrid SACDs. Sadly, the DAC+ does not have an HDMI port so the only way of achieving the desired result is to connect the BDP via an HDMI audio extractor/splitter to the Optical port on the DAC. While the DAC's display clearly indicated a connection, with PCM 88.196k reading, audio came there not. Checking the connection, it was clear that this was OK as the standard CD layer output audio clearly. So, why would there be no sound from the Hi Res feed? While understanding the rights issues involved in sending high resolution audio to non licensed bits of kit, if the feed is being registered by the DAC why there is no sound defeats me.

Anyone on the boards had experience of getting DSD or PCM 24/96 from a blu ray player to a DAC which doesn't have an HDMI input?

The only way you can get the DSD stream from your Blu-ray player is to hook it up to a DAC that has an HDMI input (no splitters or similar devices in the chain).

I am in the process of ripping all my SACDs using the PlayStation method - not for the faint-hearted! The resulting ISO files are then converted using a free piece of software called ISO2DSD. I play them via Mac and M-DAC+ (DSD2.8 usually). I'm very pleased with the results.

[Stunsworth]

I am in the process of ripping all my SACDs using the PlayStation method - not for the faint-hearted! The resulting ISO files are then converted using a free piece of software called ISO2DSD. I play them via Mac and M-DAC+ (DSD2.8 usually). I'm very pleased with the results.

You can also do it using certain Oppo and Pioneer Blu-Ray players. Details here...

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/sacd-ripping-using-oppo-or-pioneer-yes-its-true-29251/

There's a link in message 26 of the thread to the software needed.

[Sir Velo]

The only way you can get the DSD stream from your Blu-ray player is to hook it up to a DAC that has an HDMI input (no splitters or similar devices in the chain).

I am in the process of ripping all my SACDs using the PlayStation method - not for the faint-hearted! The resulting ISO files are then converted using a free piece of software called ISO2DSD. I play them via Mac and M-DAC+ (DSD2.8 usually). I'm very pleased with the results.

Thanks to you and the other replies.

I had come to that conclusion myself following the abortive attempt to route the SACD feed via a splitter to the DAC. I have to admit to being bemused as to how the DAC can show a reading of PCM 88.126k and no sound come through, but I guess that is something to do with the licensing arrangements and the "handshake" needed between compatible HDMI units, which prevents audio from being output. No such problems with the CD layer which comes through loud and clear, albeit in the case of some recordings it is a very disappointing, boxy sound compared with what I would expect from a 24/96 recording.

The PS3 route is too expensive for me to justify to myself for the sake of 5 SACDs - maybe in future years we will find more reasonable priced DACs offering the HDMI connection, but for now I will put this down to experience. As others have remarked it's frustrating to own all the hardware and software and yet be deprived from hearing the results!

[mahlerei]

Sir Velo

I'm curious: what does the display show when you play CDs this way?

[Sir Velo]

Sir Velo

I'm curious: what does the display show when you play CDs this way?

When I played the standard cd it read 44.028. Changing the output to sacd lead to the 88.126 reading. However, no audio was output. I contacted Audiolab but the response has been frustratingly unhelpful.