Streaming revisited.....losslessly.

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  • jayne lee wilson
    Banned
    • Jul 2011
    • 10711

    Streaming revisited.....losslessly.

    When the October Gramophone arrived, it carried a piece on American String Quartets, several of which I’d scarcely heard of, never mind heard. CDs of some of them were rare and expensive, brief excerpts - inconclusive. What to do? Recalling both Gramophone and Audirvana had links to Qobuz, I had a look: a month’s free streaming in CD-quality with Qobuz HiFi via Audirvana…. but I don’t do streaming, do I?
    ​Tempora et Technologia Mutantur…. I signed up.
    There followed a bleakly hilarious hour or so when nothing worked - the slightly cluttered interface on the Qobuz Player showed music playing in 16/44.1, but all I got was - silence; or it indicated 320kbps - but gave me silence still; then withdrawing and trying a re-boot, the Mac dropped the connection to the Dac; then when I reconnected with unseemly haste produced our old friend - the high-pitched whine (so-elegant USB audio will not be rushed).
    So, time for supper - exit quit and withdraw.

    Everything always works better at 2 AM, most especially my own brain (human error is, generously, 50% of Computer Audio mishaps) and within 5 minutes of a re-boot I was listening to the losslessly-streamed Concord Quartet playing the String Quartet No. 4 by George Rochberg, and in Qobuz HiFi via Audirvana too. Sound Quality seemed absolutely what I would expect from a good CD player - tape hiss, studio squeaks, smooth neutral and transparent instrumental reproduction. I could feel my relationship to recorded music evolving in real time…. why buy music anymore?
    But then, quickly seduced by the losslessly-streamed beauties of JEG’s LSO Mendelssohn 1 & 4, I rushed off to download the hires version with scarcely a thought. Sure enough it offered a superior experience - in fact an exceptional orchestral and musical experience (I named it my Record of the Year), to the extent that, after listening to Dusapin’s Aufgang via Qobuz HiFi as well, I began to feel suspicious. On the lossless stream, good as it was, there was something missing from my usual experience of CD playback or locally stored downloads.
    Time to make some comparisons!

    As I had them in CD, 24-bit and available on Qobuz Discover, I listened to a selection from Brautigam’s Mozart Piano Concertos on BIS. The FLAC stream was - clear, precise and well-resolved with no obvious tonal anomalies, but - rather cool and shallow spatially. Playing the CD I heard a sweeter, more transparent treble, more tonal warmth in the midbass, and a noticeable gain in stereo depth: overall more refined, performer-individualised and involving. I began to smile at it again. The 24/96 files were very similar to the CD, just marginal gains in ambience, warmth and fluidity. A great result for the original silver disc!
    Next, I had to convert some of my WAV files back to FLAC as the closest to the Qobuz stream. Yes, just as I expected: closer to the stream than the CD, but still a perceptible gain in warmth, timbral subtlety and depth in the locally stored file - a “nicer listen”, more pleasurably involving. But there wasn’t a lot in it; over the next few days I found I could still enjoy the streaming in isolation, only occasionally feeling the sonic losses affecting my response. (Rather as if, my CD transports being serviced, I had borrowed a slightly less able but still enjoyable one to tide me over…)
    Using Qobuz in earnest, I began exploring Gergiev’s Prokofiev Symphony recordings, which various reviews - and the Barbican acoustic - had discouraged me from buying. It was revelatory: I found new admiration for the subtlety of his direction and the beauty and power of the LSO’s response, having, on the basis of broadcasts and very few purchases, unfairly categorised him as often overdriven and hard-nosed, a bit hit and miss. But by the finale of the 6th, I felt that slight lack in quality again: a touch flat, rhythmically and dynamically. Downloading the FLAC file for comparison, again I heard a gain in life and colour, which did discourage me a little, about the CD-quality stream itself. But then, if I hadn’t heard several of these symphonies on Qobuz HiFi, I would never have done what I did next - bought the CD boxset itself (it was half the price of the current, notes-free download, so…)

    I should add at this point - yes, the Audirvana+ version of Qobuz HiFi is sonically superior to the Qobuz website player - a better-resolved, warmer, more engaging reproduction. Clearly preferable.

    ***

    Since then I’ve only warmed to it the more; it’s become too useful to give up, especially when the Gramophone arrives, when there’s bound to be mention or listing or review of some work or composer I don’t know and want to hear, without committing to purchase; or of course listening in higher quality than R3 currently offers to the BaL choice. And so on.
    Of course this facility has been available via services like Spotify and Apple Music for a some time but that’s only if you’re OK with lossy codecs, which I never truly was, and I’m increasingly not, or not for a substantial session. YMMV. Usual mix of genetic inheritance, experience, tolerance etc…. Easier to move up in quality than down.

    Frustrations, drawbacks?
    Where available, you can access the booklet in the Qobuz Player, with a bit of fiddling about and enlargement; but in Audirvana+ this isn’t offered, or not that I could see. Instead you often get biographical notes on composer or artists, often surprisingly detailed, drawn from lastfm.com and so on. I often find this more useful (especially for someone like Rochberg of whom I knew little) and given the better sound, the simpler, more attractive user-interface, I stayed with Audirvana/Qobuz, much preferring its elegant efficiency to the Qobuz Player itself.
    As for the stream stability - in Audirvana this was flawless with never a glitch, crackle or interruption. The searches and selections, playback, favourites and other functions were goodlooking, fast and smooth. In the Qobuz Player itself (on their website), the search results are a little harder to view in the cramped window, and you have to switch about to see album thumbnails. I noticed the rather more-than-occasional brief noise, or dropout, especially when switching view, probably due to busier webtraffic there.

    The link to the Gramophone is very encouraging of course. December included a review of the Roy Harris Violin Concerto (c/w John Adams) from Tamsin Waley-Cohen, Litton and the BBCSO. I’d passed this over when I saw it out on Qobuz, not wanting another recording of the Adams. After reading the enthusiastic Gramophone review of the Harris today, I’ve put it in my favourites on Qobuz HiFi, top of the playlist. It now seems entirely natural to hear something this way, irrespective of a potential purchase. Still, the sound quality is good enough to seduce: I bought the Emperor Quartet’s Martinu CD just because the BIS sound was so wonderful on the Qobuz lossless stream.

    But that whole business of the flavour or quality of attention, of listening - my worry that it would seem too take-or-leave casual to listen via streaming - that just fell away. Just as I once said, oh I don’t want a computer near the hifi, then when I actually did it, it was too much fun not to pursue. CD quality was my streaming tipping point. All it took.
    ​Tempora et technologia Mutantur, technology changes us as we use it; not always for the worse. But at its simplest, Qobuz HiFi is simply another luxurious, good-sounding, useful and easy-to-use addition to your classical listening armoury.
    Classical enthusiast, looking out for new reviews and releases, love exploring new music, or delving back into the legacy of - Paray, Karajan, Haitink, Dorati etc.?
    Audiophile, SQ fussy? Via Audirvana+ at least, here’s a great-sounding service with a huge choice of labels (Naxos seems the only major omission), AND a great deal - £20 a month, no minimum contract.
    (Note: the Qobuz Sublime option doesn’t quite offer “hires streaming” as such; it allows you to stream 24-bit recordings but only after you purchase them, albeit for a generous discount. And you have to subscribe for a year in advance. As ever in this transient, digital musical world, you have to think out what YOU, personally, want as a listener and purchaser of recorded music. And remember that the technology changes you as you use it, which may actually be enjoyable.)

  • richardfinegold
    Full Member
    • Sep 2012
    • 7862

    #2
    thank you. As you are the Number 1 Audiophile on this site, I was interested in your experience.
    My experience with Lossless Streaming was rudely truncated when ClassicsOnline changed their business model immediately after I endorsed them and dropped all labels except Naxos. I am still fighting with them for a refund. Before that happened, I had some experiences that I thought were similar to yours. Some of their 'High rez' (24/96) streams sounded better than the CDs or SACDs that I owned, but some sounded somehow a bit flatter, or hollowed in the middle. I hadn't formed a consistent opinion, and now that service is gone, but your Quobuz experience seems roughly similar to mine. Before they pulled the plug-and sent a message to downloaders that they were SOL as far as owning their downloads--I was seriously contemplating going the full streaming route. I wouldn't have done it, because I have so much in Physical Media, but I saw why others have gone that way.
    Quobuz interface put me off when I did the free trial. Perhaps if I was a native francophone I would have been less intimidated.

    Comment

    • Beef Oven!
      Ex-member
      • Sep 2013
      • 18147

      #3
      Very interesting Jayne - thank you very much indeed for sharing your experiences with us.

      I haven’t read the last three issues of Gramophone, but I’ve been listening to a few American string quartets lately and coincidently, I bought the Rochberg quartets/Concord Quartet from Qobuz a few days ago. Rochberg’s Quartets have been on my shopping list for more than a year! (I had #3 playing on my Sony Hi-Res portable/RHA T-20 this afternoon, while on a long walk). It was a good price, but no booklet. However, I tracked down the the essay that accompanies the CD release. It is an excellent summary outline of the works and is a joy to read. Here it is if you don’t have it -



      I’m sticking to Apple Music streaming for now at £9.99 per month. I use it like you to check out the things that I want to know more about before I buy - currently listening to Miloslav Kabelac, symphony#1 from the complete set by the Prague Symphony Orchestra/Marko Ivanovic that teamsaint has been punting (this will definitely become a purchase, thanks teamsaint for an excellent steer).

      Now I think I’ll go to October’s Gramophgone and read that feature on American string quartets!


      Update: I couldn't locate that piece on American string quartets in my October digital edition of Gramophone. Can you give me a page number?
      Last edited by Beef Oven!; 06-12-16, 23:58.

      Comment

      • jayne lee wilson
        Banned
        • Jul 2011
        • 10711

        #4
        Here you go....
        Gramophone has been the world’s leading authority on classical music since 1923. Every issue will enrich your classical music knowledge with in-depth interviews and features about composers past and present, plus established and new artists from across the globe. Gramophone is the magazine for the classical collector, as well for the enthusiast starting a voyage of discovery.



        October 2016, pp 108 - 109, Andrew Farcah-Colton: ​The Specialists Guide to.... American String Quartets.

        The Feldman is a local cause celèbre, and the Carter, ives & Schumann may already have succumbed to your voracity; so if it remains undevoured, check out the Tsontakis.... VERY
        beautiful... that one stays in my Qobuz HiFi favourites for now, although I've demoted the Rochbergs.... so it goes.


        Last edited by jayne lee wilson; 07-12-16, 02:21.

        Comment

        • Beef Oven!
          Ex-member
          • Sep 2013
          • 18147

          #5
          Thanks Jayne - I have no idea how I couldn’t see that. Reading it this morning.

          Comment

          • Beef Oven!
            Ex-member
            • Sep 2013
            • 18147

            #6
            Originally posted by Beef Oven! View Post
            Thanks Jayne - I have no idea how I couldn’t see that. Reading it this morning.
            UPDATE: Interesting piece. I already have half of the works discussed and I have just downloaded the Ben Johnston set of 2, 3, 4 & 9.

            I’ll check out the Tsontakis at some point, soon.

            Comment

            • Stunsworth
              Full Member
              • Nov 2010
              • 1553

              #7
              Originally posted by jayne lee wilson View Post
              Frustrations, drawbacks?
              Where available, you can access the booklet in the Qobuz Player, with a bit of fiddling about and enlargement; but in Audirvana+ this isn’t offered, or not that I could see
              Jayne, have you tried clicking on the open book icon to the right just above the track listing?

              I've been with Qobuz for a few years, and have been a Sublime subscriber for two. I'll be renewing my subscription when my current one ends next February. One of the principal benefits of Sublime is that it allows the download of high resolution albums at what is often a large discount.

              My only regret with Qobuz is that there's no streaming for Hyperion or ECM. Hyperion used to be available to stream, but I guess they decided not to renew their contract with Qobuz.
              Steve

              Comment

              • jayne lee wilson
                Banned
                • Jul 2011
                • 10711

                #8
                Brilliant tip Steve, thanks! The notes are right there. Wow. A great service is even better than I thought...

                The main reason I've held off the ​Qobuz Sublime option is the SQ losses I heard comparing the FLAC stream to the CD or the locally stored files (especially since I usually convert FLAC/ALAC to WAV - the differences were more obvious when I compared those).
                I felt I may not hear the hi-res at its best streamed offsite. And I wasn't sure about a year's commitment.
                But as I said, the discount where offered is generous, yes.... If you only buy HQ downloads it does look a good deal, but I still often want the CD anyway so.....as with most digital culture, I guess it's under permanent review.
                Last edited by jayne lee wilson; 07-12-16, 17:02.

                Comment

                • Stunsworth
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 1553

                  #9
                  Glad to help.
                  Steve

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