Do clouds burst?

[french frank]

Just exploring my new BT Cloud and was surprised (all right, what did I know? - nothing!) to discover that when I dragged and dropped a folder into it, that was where the one copy was. I.e. that unlike a flash drive or external hard drive, it scoops the file up rather than generating a copy.

Hmm, I suppose that is the only way to synchronise and avoid having multiple versions of the same file littered all over the place. But - is it wise?

[Bryn]

Just exploring my new BT Cloud and was surprised (all right, what did I know? - nothing!) to discover that when I dragged and dropped a folder into it, that was where the one copy was. I.e. that unlike a flash drive or external hard drive, it scoops the file up rather than generating a copy.

Hmm, I suppose that is the only way to synchronise and avoid having multiple versions of the same file littered all over the place. But - is it wise?

I'd say always keep copies (at least 2) on local storage media.

[french frank]

I'd say always keep copies (at least 2) on local storage media.

In that case - a routine must be planned. The local back-ups would only be needed if the cloud did burst. But without A Routine they might not be the latest version worked on.

[Dave2002]

I dislike clouds which seem to do their own thing. The other day I was trying (just one more time .... aggghhh!) to get my Apple TV to work with Medici.tv, which has been claimed to be feasible recently. As I was doing this, I noticed that a recording I made very recently appeared on the TV menu. The recording is not accessible to anyone else, or certainly shouldn't have been. The only explanation I have is that I tried to play the .wav file, and that was sufficient for iTunes to grab it and send it off into some cloud or other.

I do wish this didn't happen without the user's permission.
The only good thing is that I am now aware of that. It would be perfectly possible for applications to do this without notifying the user in any way, or even raising any suspicion that a file had been uploaded. So much for trusting companies like Apple ..... Microsoft .... and the rest ......

Of couse sometimes this can be useful, but it should be under the user's control, and the user should be aware that it's happening, and not simply as a result of possibly having inadvertantly "signed" an agreement sent from Planet Zog a trillion years ago that the companies have "the right" or the "permission" to do this.

[Serial_Apologist]

I was going to say no, then saw this was on the TECHIE bored!

[french frank]

I was going to say no, then saw this was on the TECHIE bored!

Yes, this is for us techie-minded people, S_A

Not sure what Dave2002 is referring to: I have much simpler aims. During the winter, I only have one warm room in the evenings - downstairs - where I work on my MacBook. I work on the same files upstairs during the day and was always sending updated files either by email from one to the other or copying on a flash drive. There did seem to be quite a risk of getting the various versions mixed up, so the idea of the cloud keeping the master copy for use on either machine seemed a good one. On the whole I suspect BT's cloud is less likely to crash that one of my computers - and if it's insecure, best of luck to the hackers: they'll have all my stuff on Abbo of Fleury and Ælfric of Eynsham to wade through looking for passwords, PINs &c.

[Dave2002]

Arguably you have more faith in BT than some of the rest of the UK people. Didn't I hear that they still come top in the complaints polling?

I actually think they are quite good - with reservations. Looks like we adopt similar working practices, often sending files via email between our own machines, though it doesn't work well for huge files. Of course if any of us are happy to send stuff by email, then who are we to complain if it goes into the clouds and gets read or hacked or whatever ....? The number one assumption with email should be the same as postcards in the postal service - they will be read, and even if they're not the potential is there.

[french frank]

Arguably you have more faith in BT than some of the rest of the UK people. Didn't I hear that they still come top in the complaints polling?

I wasn't looking forward to having to ring their 0800 number - but it worked in that I spoke to an advisor and booked an engineer to examine why my landline (and broadband) weren't working. Discovering BTWifi-with-FON meant I had free access to OpenZone (upstairs, not downstairs ) because I'm a BT customer. The problem seemed to be a new junction box down the road where I'd been plugged in to the wrong port by Openreach. This got the telephone working, but not the broadband, However, as the hub was an old one, I had the latest one (just released) delivered by post - first person around here to have the neat BTHub6). Yes, all right, there was the snag of signing up for a new 18-month contract in order to get the whole lot free, but I wasn't intending to move anyway. And the monthly payment went down.

So - no complaint.

[Anastasius]

There are other possibilities to achieve what you desire, ff.

1) Simplest is to stick a USB stick into upstairs machine, copy your files to it, take it downstairs and plug it in there.

2) If you weren't tied in to BT then there is an even easier solution and is what I use here. Our router lets me plug the USB stick into it and I can access the files there from either machine. My own little 'cloud'.

3) You could set up a share between the two machines and do it that way.

4) Set up a cheap Mac Mini as a file-server (more complicated to do admittedly).

One thing with clouds and the like is how does one implement Bryn's suggestion? How do you stop the computer sending those two local copies off into the cloud? Even if you could do that, how do you maintain a naming convention. By that, I mean you create 'D'homage d'Abbo' and off it goes to the cloud. So how do you make your local copy? What do you call it? If you name it 'D'homage d'Abbo' then trying to edit the one in the cloud, when you try and pen it, the Mac will, I think get very upset as you have two files the same name. I really think that with the cloud it's all-or-nothing TBH.

It is an interesting question as currently I seem to have an awful lot of offline storage places. Some , like Dropbox, I opted for an increased storage allowance fully intending to use it as offline backup for our photographs. But I now realise that Dropbox is hopeless - as are all other cloud storage devices other than iCloud - for storing iPhoto stuff. They just don't work. But then again, reading various stuff online, I'm not sure quite how iCloud handles photos either. Plus it looks as if I'd have to migrate to a later version of the OS to use Photo. Which in itself is going to be interesting seeing as how I think I need a version of iPhoto 9.x before I can migrate. But you can't buy it anymore.

I also have stuff in Google Drive that, like Dave 2002, I didn't realise I had and automatically sucks photos from out of my Android smartphone. The first I knew about this was when Google told me that it had created a panoramic shot from my photos. Que ? I'm sure that there is a setting to stop it doing it. But have to admit that I am in accord with dave 2002 regarding this. I like to be in control and not have some default. Mind you, we differ when it comes to anyone reading my emails. I couldn't care less !

So in a complete quandary and needs to be addressed sooner rather than later as Chez Anastasius is about to close one chapter and open another and to take the opportunity to upgrade the whole TV/computer shebang.

Sorry to go a tad off-topic, ff.

[umslopogaas]

I have found BT service very good. My landline phone stopped working recently, so I rang BT on my mobile and they sent a linesman next day who checked all the above ground wires, which were all OK. A couple of days later they set up traffic lights, dug up the road and found the fault and fixed it. Nothing to complain about there.

Re. back up, I save everything I write to the C drive, then copy to a memory stick (F drive). I'm retired, so this all refers to writing I do at home. If its important, or likely to be needed for a long time to come, I usually make a paper copy, because old computers eventually get replaced, and old memory sticks get lost. I even have a box of old floppy discs in a cupboard, but they are useless, in the remote possibility I need to refer to them I no longer have a computer that would accept them.

[french frank]

There are other possibilities to achieve what you desire, ff.

1) Simplest is to stick a USB stick into upstairs machine, copy your files to it, take it downstairs and plug it in there.

That's what I was doing pre-cloud. But things didn't get updated if I forgot to do the copying one way or the other.

2) If you weren't tied in to BT then there is an even easier solution and is what I use here. Our router lets me plug the USB stick into it and I can access the files there from either machine. My own little 'cloud'.

What has this to do with BT? The new hub has a USB port. No idea why. (Don't understand your 3) and 4) btw)

One thing with clouds and the like is how does one implement Bryn's suggestion? How do you stop the computer sending those two local copies off into the cloud? Even if you could do that, how do you maintain a naming convention. By that, I mean you create 'D'homage d'Abbo' and off it goes to the cloud. So how do you make your local copy? What do you call it? If you name it 'D'homage d'Abbo' then trying to edit the one in the cloud, when you try and pen it, the Mac will, I think get very upset as you have two files the same name. I really think that with the cloud it's all-or-nothing TBH.

Not entirely sure I understand the problem. I have a desktop folder called 'BT Cloud' on each machine and after I edit the cloud file I create a copy in the BT Cloud folder. It won't be on the other machine, but the only important point is that there is an immediate back-up somewhere if the cloud is blown away. One or other machine will have the latest back up in its BT Cloud folder. May be primitive I haven't yet discovered why it doesn't work.

[Anastasius]

Your OP said " ... it scoops the file up rather than generating a copy." from which I assumed that you no longer had your local copy on any machine.

Back to my (1)....you make the USB your master that you write to/read from. Then when you take it downstairs, you have your latest version with you. At the end of the day, you backup your USB stick.


(3) System Preferences > Sharing > File Sharing. Your document lives in just one machine ..in the shared folder and your other Mac can then see it and work on it.

(4) I agree...forget I mentioned that one !!

If your router has a USB port then you might be able to stick a USB stick in it as per what I do. If you go into your router there should be a way to access it from the menus. But (3) is probably better.

[french frank]

Your OP said " ...[COLOR=#272727] it scoops the file up rather than generating a copy." from which I assumed that you no longer had your local copy on any machine.

Correct. When I've edited the cloud file, I CTRL+C, CTRL+V into the desktop folder.

But will investigate the file sharing method - thank you. (Though 500GB free storage space is not to be sniffed at).

[Dave2002]

I wasn't looking forward to having to ring their 0800 number - but it worked in that I spoke to an advisor and booked an engineer to examine why my landline (and broadband) weren't working. Discovering BTWifi-with-FON meant I had free access to OpenZone (upstairs, not downstairs ) because I'm a BT customer. The problem seemed to be a new junction box down the road where I'd been plugged in to the wrong port by Openreach. This got the telephone working, but not the broadband, However, as the hub was an old one, I had the latest one (just released) delivered by post - first person around here to have the neat BTHub6). Yes, all right, there was the snag of signing up for a new 18-month contract in order to get the whole lot free, but I wasn't intending to move anyway. And the monthly payment went down.

I don't quite understand the mention of BT-WiFi-with-FON. If you have WiFi in your house, surely you can access everything directly via WiFi from your router. Presumably your router is wireless anyway, and your upstairs machine must be able to receive/send WiFi, otherwise you wouldn't have mentioned it. My experience of BT-WiFi-with-FON is that it's often very slow, since essentially you piggy back off other people's wireless routers, and there are I presume restrictions so that the "new" wireless user doesn't "steal" or "borrow" too much bandwidth from the main payer. I'm not sure if the thing is clever enough to realise that if you are using your own router in the WiFi-with-Fon mode that it could give you the best bandwidth. The only other possible reason to use with-Fon is to see if the charges are reduced - though I doubt it. Using with-Fon means that the person who provides the router access doesn't get charged for your usage, which seems reasonable. In your own home that would be you, anyway!

If you are using wireless, then why not just use a share folder between the two machines as Anastasius has suggested? Once you have that set up, then can you not simply number any new generation copies to keep track?

I have found BT-WiFi-with-Fon to be of limited use, but it may work for emails while out and about. Very possibly not good enough for iPlayer Radio, or even iPlayer (video), but the system does allow BT to claim huge coverage.

Your BT router probably has a couple of other "stations" such as BTHub5-5XY and BTHub5-5XY-5G which are your own dedicated wifi channels. Ignore the Fon thing in your own home.

[french frank]

I don't quite understand the mention of BT-WiFi-with-FON. If you have WiFi in your house, surely you can access everything directly via WiFi from your router.

My understanding was that you had to be in a "hotspot". Both my machines, upstairs and downstairs, work off the router - which is upstairs by the master socket. My point was that I can't work downstairs with my MacBook with the BTWifi-with-FON when - as was the case - my telephone/broadband was down: I had to take the machine upstairs. My problem last week was that I had no phone/broadband. That's why I looked to see if there was an available network anywhere and found the temporary solution.