Chrome gadgets

[Dave2002]

In an attempt to avert the soon to be with us problem of being cut off from iPlayer by changes in September which affect some PVRs I've been exploring Chromecast devices.

I have a gen 1 device which I've had for a while, and the gen 2 models are now £25 from Currys. I was surprised that the price was lower than the £30 I was expecting, and I can confirm that the gen 2 models do seem to work rather well. Also, they will turn some TVs on, if a program is activated, or switch from another input - though this feature may not work with some older TVs.

I also note that there is an audio device Chromecast Audio - that's now £20 from Currys, and besides headphone style outputs it also has an optical output, so hopefully it would give good results with a DAC.

I've tried the Chromecast (TV) models with iPads and Android phones, and they do seem to work well enough after a short set up procedure. Perhaps the first time the procedure is attempted it will seem confusing, but it gets easier with practice. Essentially a mobile device connects directly via WiFi to the Chromecast in order to set up the link to the infrastructure network by providing the Router ID and Router password. Once that is done, the mobile devices connect back to the infrastructure network as per normal, but the Cast operation from enable apps will cause appropriate content to be sent to the TV or audio device.

I've not yet tried the audio version - but I may buy one as the price seems low enough. I don't know what bit rates those devices support, but it's probably good enough for most purposes.

[kernelbogey]

...the soon to be with us problem of being cut off from iPlayer by changes in September which affect some PVRs...

Could you provide a reference please? This has passed me by.

[Dave2002]

Could you provide a reference please? This has passed me by.

Here you are - http://iplayerhelp.external.bbc.co.uk/tv/v2_closure

If you're lucky your devices won't be on the hit list, but unfortunately some of ours are.

Re the Chromecast, seems that some Tescos may also have them, and also for £25 for the TV version right now, though no sign of the audio version. The gen 2 Chromecast seems to work rather well, both for catch-up and live BBC material, and can turn the TV on (some), though seemingly not off again.

One Tesco had a range of streamers, including the Amazon Fire at a reasonable (reduced?) price, but I think the prices vary across some stores. I did consider the Amazon devices (there's more than one ...) but reviews suggested that they wouldn't help so much - may not even be compatible with iPlayer - check (may depend what devices are used to "throw" content to the gadget) - and we'd be bombarded with Amazon advertising, though some Prime users seem to like it - but then they probably like some of the dreadful (IMO) programme content which Amazon put out with their streaming service.

Clarkson/Top Gear fans might like it, though!

[kernelbogey]

Many thanks Dave. (As long as Clarkson is not de riguer....)
BW, kb

[Dave2002]

One thing which doesn't seem to work is using a single mobile device (e.g. an iPad) to control two different Chromecast units simultaneously. There may be ways, perhaps with some other Apps or Android phones - I have a vague recollection of someone mentioning controlling several TVs - but I've not found out how to do it with a single mobile device. It is possible to select which TV gets the display though, but only one can be driven at a time.

Possibly using the Chrome browser on an MBP (MacBook Pro) might work, as it might be possible to assign each Chromecast unit to its own tab in the browser, though I've not checked that yet.

PS: That last conjecture turns out to be correct. Two TVs can be controlled from separate tabs in the Chrome browser, with different programmes running on each.

[Dave2002]

Hopefully the Chromecast and similar devices are not going to be affected by the iPlayer changes. It's not quite clear to me exactly how some of these work. Some can mirror what is on the "host" mobile device, while some intercept the content stream and render directly from the originating source. Some devices may themselves need to receive software updates in order to continue to work after such a significant system change. Some devices may be able to operate in several modes (e.g. Apple TVs), so maybe could still work with screen mirroring even if in-device rendering fails - hopefully for only a short while before any update.

I did not see any such streaming devices on the BBC list of problem units.

We should be surer by the end of September that these gadgets do the trick, and are not themselves affected.

[Dave2002]

PS: That last conjecture turns out to be correct. Two TVs can be controlled from separate tabs in the Chrome browser, with different programmes running on each.

PPS: Further checking is required. Using the Chrome browser on an MBP running Mountain Lion seemed to work OK with 2 TVs, but trying again with a MacBook Air and a more recent OS version (Mavericks?) did not seem satisfactory. That's probably not a deal breaker though for most people who might find the Chromecast gadgets useful. It did, however, work quite well with just one TV. Maybe this can be made to work with 2 TVs, as with the MBP configuration, but it's (maybe) not guaranteed.

We should know in a few weeks what the impact of the service changes for iPlayer is likely to be, and whether the Chromecast devices provide a robust solution. I"m not sure exactly when the service changes - the warning message on one of our PVRs simply says September 2016, with no more precise information.

[Dave2002]

Possible wi-fi problems with Chromecast devices

I started this thread partly because I have an interest in the Chrome gadgets, and partly because of changes to functionality of iPlayer service which will soon come into force (i.e. it won't work!) on some PVRs and TVs .

Currently the devices are installed in a family member's house. User reports suggest that sometimes the signals drop out, and doing a search for "chromecast loses signal" or similar, suggests that other people do have the same problem, and for some it is clearly infuriating. I am now looking for solutions to overcome this problem, and the most promising seem to be to abandon Chromecast, and to use other devices, such as those from Roku or Now TV, and connect these with a wired connection.

The Chromecast devices do not have any wired connection capability, so the only option to improve the wi-fi signal would seem to be some form of wireless extender. Some work by using a wired connection (probably using the mains) with a wireless access point in the area where service is required. That might be a good solution, though the powerline connection is not always reliable - it depends on the house wiring. Some extenders work completely by wireless, and for technical reasons may not work well for high performance applications. If the problems with devices such as the Chromecast units are related to the transfer speed between the router and the device, it doesn't seem likely that such wireless extenders will solve the problems.

Additionally, any form of extender will add additional cost to the installation.

Possibly a cheaper and simpler solution is to abandon Chromecast devices, and look for streaming devices which can use a wired internet connection, some of which are fairly cheap. Two makes come to mind - Roku and Now TV - though both of these have several models at different price points or with different capabilities. As it happens I have an early Roku streamer, so that can be tried. There is already a working ethernet link, provided by a cheap TP link adapter kit, (like this for about £25 - https://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-LINK-TL-...inks+powerline ) so we don't need to spend more at this stage.

Others who find that wi-fi doesn't work with streaming devices will need to provide a suitable connection. Cable is probably the cheapest, if the wires can be routed through the domestic environment, but that is not always so easy.

Following the links from the BBC help page re the forthcoming changes - http://iplayerhelp.external.bbc.co.uk/tv/device_help - gets to this http://www.stuff.tv/features/best-tv...ticks-reviewed which gives technical details of some streaming devices. Not all of the suggested devices have ethernet connectivity. The Gizmodo review also accessible from that BBC site makes a few other suggestions, and is also rather damning of some Apple products - but the language used is not polite so you'll have to find your own links to that. Essentially these sites do suggest that some kit from Roku and Now TV are the ones which will do the job.

The Now TV box can be obtained for as little as £15 - and for slightly more there are some content packages (Entertainment, Sport etc, - Sky) available as well - https://www.amazon.co.uk/NOW-TV-Mont...eywords=now+tv

According to the user reports on the Amazon site, the black models have ethernet ports while the white ones may not have.
Most of the current models do seem to do 1080 HD - though some earlier models only did 720 HD. Users who are using smaller TVs - a second or third TV for example, in a bedroom, shouldn't notice any difference between 720 and 1080 streamers.

At the current price, the Now TV with an ethernet connection almost seems like a no brainer.

[richardfinegold]

Dave, if I recall, you have some experience with Apple TV., which is the only one of these devices that I have used. What are the differences between the two? Have you tried Roku?

[Dave2002]

Richard

Your question has prompted me to retry with the Apple TV. I also had another look at the Gizmodo review - mentioned earlier - http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2015/12/the...-2015-edition/ but actually that is somewhat scathing re the latest Apple TV model - though I'm glad I've been warned about the latest "issues".

Apple has been totally negligent, IMO, re the ATV - or at least particularly with respect to the UK. There are no apps that I can see which will work with BBC, ITV, C4 or other non pay per view channels. There is access to historic content via the iTunes store - but most of us in the UK don't want to pay yet again to see programmes which we can usually see on regular channels. Also, since the start of this month, everyone accessing TV in the UK should have a valid TV licence, though the licences are associated with households and houses. All people living at the same address, and in the same household would be covered by one licence, and any household which has multiple homes will require multiple TV licences, except for some very specific exceptions - e.g. caravans, mobile homes. Most legal users of TV equipment in the UK will object to having to pay to access TV, unless they wish to subscribe to services such as Sky Sports, Sky anything else, BT TV etc.

I have a 3rd generation ATV. It seems bonkers that Apple have still not provided any form of update that I can see which allows access to the freely available on-line services in the UK - BBC iPlayer, ITV Hub and C4OD for example, without the use of other equipment, such as an iPhone, iPad or Mac OS X computer.

However, all is not lost for anyone who already has an Apple computer or a recent iPad, as there are ways of making it work - see http://www.macworld.co.uk/how-to/app...-ipad-3592121/ Airplay does work well enough, though sometimes there can be lip sync problems - perhaps not on the most usual TV sources. At least the ATV 3rd generation is now a bit cheaper - around £60, while the 4th generation model is around twice that price.

Maybe the ATV is a better product with the services available in the US, but in the UK it's really now a pretty poor offering. For anyone who hasn't got any Apple kit already, it seems to me to be a complete waste of time and money, compared with Chromecast or Now TV or Roku devices, and most of the new ones will work with Android phones or have their own inbuilt or downloadable apps.

I have not only looked at reviews, but also actually plugged my own unit back in to see if there are any recent upgrades or improvements. Well that didn't take long - there's nothing new since about a year ao. We did try to watch some operas via Medici TV, but that was very disappointing as the device kept stuttering and there were frequent lip sync and video/audio lag problems. It does that whether it's connected by wireless or ethernet. With other services now available - e.g the Berlin POs Digital Concert Hall, Apple seems to have completely lost the plot by not keeping up to date and providing access to services which are available in Europe, and new services as they come available. This is a shame, as for HDTV at least, this would be a worthwhile thing - but I don't think Apple really cares.

At the current time, with some users having to find an alternative way to watch on demand services from iPlayer, the Apple TV seems a very expensive and poor choice for most of them. If the Chromecast issues re wireless connectivity don't affect a particular user, then at (now cuirrent pricing in some stores) £25 it's a great device, while the Now TV offering is almost certainly a snip at between £15- 30 depending what's bundled with it. The situation in the US may be different, but the driver here in the UK at the present time is the discontinuation of iPlayer on some devices. Also, with so many people now not bothering to watch TV on a screen, but using phones, tablets, computers etc., there is rather less urgency for some people..

[richardfinegold]

We cut the Cable Cord and only get free TV. We supplement it with offerings from ATV, which we pay for on an alacarte basis. I have a second gen ATV and it frustrates the heck out of me. I often wonder if Roku or Chrome would be better. Lately, however, my wife is agitating for a new laptop that will hopefully run El Capitan better. since our eyesight is failing we want to use Air Play so that we can do tasks like pay bills while looking at a big screen, and we need ATV for that.

[Dave2002]

Richard

Presumably you don't get iPlayer where you are so you have to take what offerings you can get from PBS or some of the other paid for services. There are, I believe ways to get iPlayer to work, but it would probably require cooperation with someone in the UK, and would perhaps even be a criminal activity now, if it wasn't before.

You could try one of the 27 inch desktops with a Retina display if you can find space for it. For some activities these are much better than using laptops - e.g. for your bill paying, and they can also double up as a TV.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n9tSN0178Us

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jq3H1QZlct0

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cgXJlo8OeBk

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m6CgGtSKOKs

I"ll come back to you re Roku. I quite like Chromecast, but it's hopeless if there are wifi problems, but then so is ATV.

Best wishes.

[Dave2002]

Now got my old Roku box up and running again. Further, I have installed an App on my iPad Pro which allows me to control it from that, though it doesn't seem to do much more than the original remote - which is a shame. Initially I installed it in the hope of getting the Roku box working again, as I couldn't find the remote immediately. Might be handy in the future, if the remote goes AWOL again.

I am really impressed with the Roku device, though mine turns out not to have ethernet, and is only 720 HD. The limitations of the HD are slightly apparent, but I think most of the new ones are at least 1080 - and Roku (and others) may be ready to produce 4k models.

Oddly there seem to be hardly any significant limitations of WiFi in our living room - though the Apple TV has had problems both with WiFi and wired ethernet in the same location. However, it is possible that Roku will also suffer if the distances for WiFi are too great - which can happen in some houses/environments.

Re the Now TV boxes - here is the latest offer I've seen - https://www.amazon.co.uk/NOW-TV-Mont.../dp/B013SGATVC
I don't know which Roku box this one is based on, but I think it does have ethernet, and at £15 it seems like a snip.

Anyone who wants a lot more might want to try a more expensive Roku box.

[richardfinegold]

We use Apple TV to pull in all kind of content, not just from the BBC. For example, we bought several series of Breaking Bad, the Spanish miniseries 'The Time In Between', and the German 'Deutchland 83', as well as movies, Internet Radio (sometimes Radio 3 but our favorite is Radio Venice). So if I was to replace the ATV with Roku or Chrome Iwould like to see them offer similar content

[Dave2002]

We use Apple TV to pull in all kind of content, not just from the BBC. For example, we bought several series of Breaking Bad, the Spanish miniseries 'The Time In Between', and the German 'Deutchland 83', as well as movies, Internet Radio (sometimes Radio 3 but our favorite is Radio Venice). So if I was to replace the ATV with Roku or Chrome Iwould like to see them offer similar content

Indeed, though do you have to pay for all that stuff? Over here there's a lot which is essentially free, with the right gadgets, via iPlayer, C4OD, ITVHub etc. I think most people in the UK who pay the licence fee think that more or less entitles them - and now that the law has recently changed, I see that view hardening. On the other hand, there are many people who are prepared to pay a fortune to watch subscription channels - often sports enthusiasts, and then there are others (including amongst others students) who find ways of not paying, or believing that they don't have to pay, by various means.

My own view of ATV is very coloured, as I don't think my unit works well, and the offerings are mostly US centric - so I feel it is pretty poor. I've given up trying to pretend that it works, and that it's just my router and network which mean it doesn't work well. Basically, for me, it is rubbish, whereas I have managed to get both Chromecast and Roku boxes to work well enough. I am aware of the limitations of WiFi and the impact it has on these devices in other environments, so perhaps not everyone will like them. I'd always advise anyone to choose a box with an ethernet connection if possible, to get a better chance of it working.

The Roku box I have has hundreds of channels, though in fact as I might have expected, hardly any that I really want to watch, and one channel I would have liked is Medici.tv, which doesn't seem to feature. I know there are workarounds, such as using Plex on yet another computer to feed to the Roku box (or a similar kludge for Chromecast) but sometimes consumers just want something which works without having to buy yet more hardware.

Re the Now TV box which is available in the UK - it is cheap enough, and possibly comes with a different range of channels. I think the distribution people are often just bundling the hardware up with different content offerings, and perhaps they're really hoping to hook users into some form of subscription, which will recover the "give away price" of the hardware in a very short time. The one thing about my Roku box, which is a few years old, is that by modern standards it is slow. It probably has older chip sets which won't deliver high performance, and runs a version of Linux - which is what most of them do. With the significantly reduced cost of basic electronics, and memory over the last few years, I would expect most modern boxes - or even ones which are 2 or 3 years behind current models - to be fast enough.

As a concept I think the marketing of all these gadgets has to be different in the UK from in the US, because the US barely has a decent public broadcasting system (we did live there for a few years ...) - though I used to like some PBS TV and radio programmes - but often the programmes came from the UK anyway!