Getting the right album order putting CDs on a music server

[Steerpike]

Sorry this is long but I can’t get it any shorter. I’m in the process of putting my CDs on to a Zen music server and it’s wonderful to have such easy access to so much music. I’m using the OrangeSqueeze app on my Android tablet to select and choose what to play. But I’ve met a problem so, all help gratefully received!

I edit all my albums to be of the form, e.g. Beethoven - Symphony 5 - Scherchen (sometimes orch and where). I put them on the server in folders with a similar name to the album. One more thing – where the composer has written more than 9 numbered symphonies, then in the Album tag and on the folder name I leave an extra space before single numbered symphonies, e.g. Mahler - Symphony[space][space]9. In the unique case (anyway for me) of Haydn there’s two extra spaces for single numbered symphonies etc. In the Excel spreadsheet I used as a database and in the case of mp3 files in my car and everywhere else, this works to keep albums in the correct order. But not with FLAC files on the Zen with OrangeSqueeze. Here I get the symphonies in the order 1, 10, 2 etc in Album view and 10, 1, 2 etc in folder view.

And, in the case, for example, of Schumann Lieder and Liederkreis, album view is correct but folder view gives Lieder - [singers with name starting with letters up to KREIS], then all the Liederkreis, then Lieder - [singers with name starting with letters after KREIS].

OrangeSqueeze tell me that their app, like all similar ones depends entirely on the results from Logitech Media Server – and indeed LMS on my PC does give exactly the same undesirable ordering. It seems to me that LMS orders things ignoring spaces and dashes, I suppose it only "sees" alphanumeric characters. Of course I can solve all this by using a leading zero instead of a leading space in tags and folder names. Or I could just be aware of it and live with it. But I really don’t like the clunkiness of those solutions. It leads to the system showing the Mahler 02 and the Haydn 008 etc. Horrible!

I’m hoping someone has solved this – help please! Thanks

Steerpike

[johnb]

Am I right in thinking that you are ripping your CDs to a Zen music server with the intention of running LMS on the Zen music server and using the OrangeSqueeze app on your Android tablet as a remote controller?

I am a long time user of LMS/Squeezebox Touch and use a similar album tagging format to yours, at least for orchestral works. (For a remote controller I use the iPeng app on an iPad.)

Apologies for trying to "teach my grandmother how to suck eggs" but before going into the problems you raise - just a couple of points:

If so, one thing that is worth bearing in mind is that the developers of LMS intended it to be used primarily with the file tags. The folder view was intended to be a useful "extra". Because of this, the LMS system critically depends on consistent and systematic tagging but the benefit is that it provides one of the most versatile user interfaces going (arguably THE best user interface)

Personally, I mainly use the tags but I do use the folder view when I want to play an entire CD.

Which version of LMS are you using? I ask because LMS 7.9.0 has some developments that are very useful for classical music - the main one is that it uses the "Composer" tag. Another function which 7.9.0 has that I find very handy is "Random Albums" - which throws up pieces which would never have occurred to me to play. LMS 7.9 is "theoretically" a beta version but I have been using it for well over a year and it has proved very stable and I would be very reluctant to use the earlier versions. Having recommended LMS 7.9.0 I'm not sure what the installation procedure would be on your Zen. (I use a HP Microserver running Ubuntu, so I can install things very easily.)

Back to your questions: when I hit the "1, 10, 2" problem I used leading zeros "solution" (mainly because the idea of leading spaces didn't occur to me) - not perhaps ideal but at least it works. (If your files are already tagged, it's a pain in the rear to re-edit the Haydn Symphonies, Bach Cantatas, etc, etc.)

As for the Schumann Lieder issue in the folder view, it's something I have never hit - probably because I tend to rip my CDs into separate folders then use the LMS search/composer functions to select the music. I'll have to have a think about it.

One very useful source of information on all things related to LMS is the SlimDevices forum. It is supported by Logitech but is separate from the Logitech forum.

By the way, on Windows THE "go to" tag editing software is mp3tag.

For ripping CDs, two of the most recommended programs for accurate ripping have been EAC (free) and, especially dpPowerAmp (not free but quicker and very highly recommended).

Apologies for rambling on.

[Steerpike]

John, thanks very much for your reply. Not a case of grandmother and eggs – I’m very new to this. I’ve been steadily ripping and editing tags since May but I’ve still got a couple of thousand CDs to go. Once I hit the numbering problem I postponed ripping relevant items such as Haydn, Mahler, Shostakovich etc. But I can’t postpone them for ever! But this does mean I wouldn’t have to do a lot of re-tagging to use the leading zeroes (or some other) solution where it’s needed.

Yes, your first sentence describes what I’m doing exactly. I sometimes rip on the Zen and sometimes on my PC and send the files (with edited tags) to the Zen over my LAN. I use dbPoweramp (recommended by Zen) and mp3tag which I’ve used often for mp3s but, of course, it deals with flac files equally well.

I didn’t know that folder view was relatively new but it would be good if I could sort the numbering problem even on Album view. I see I have LMS version 7.8.0 which came on the Zen. The people at Zen are very helpful so I imagine they’d tell me how to install 7.9 or do it for me remotely if I asked but, if I understand you correctly, that wouldn’t solve the problem of having to use leading zeroes to get the right order of Albums.

I don’t always rip CDs into an album but decided to put opera acts into separate albums (usually 2 CDs into 3 albums, except for Wagner of course, where it’s usually 4 into 3). I also wanted to have the Albums serve the purpose of a music index (which I used to have on Excel) so I split recital discs into recognised cycles and just Lieder. This means I can go directly to all the Schumann Liederkreis op 39, say, without using the search function. Hence the Lieder, Liederkreis, rest of the Lieder issue.

Thanks for mentioning the SlimDevices forum, I didn’t know of it and I’ll investigate.

Thanks too for "rambling on", it’s very helpful (and I've done it now) – and it's encouraging to know that someone else has met the ordering problem.

Steerpike

[johnb]

Steerpike,

I should correct the impression I have inadvertently given. The folder view has been there from the start of LMS (and its previous incarnations as SqueezeboxServer and SqueezeCentre), it is just that I remember one of the developers saying that it hadn't been intended that this view would be used as the principal method of selecting music.

There are two current versions of LMS, both have been developed further than the version of LMS current when Logitech discontinued the Squeezebox product line. 7.8.0 is very good, very stable (as I understand it) and is built on the older versions of LMS whereas 7.9.0 is what could be called a "community fork" - its development has been overseen by the ever helpful Michael Herger (who is responsible for 7.8.0) but it incorporates additional features.

If you are interested this is the changelog for 7.9.0 (it is in tech-speak but it might be helpful): http://htmlpreview.github.io/?https:...hangelog7.html

The two features of 7.9.0 that I very much value are the Composer Browse (which depends on the "Composer" tag being completed in a consistent way) and the Random Albums browse (extremely useful for suggesting pieces which I would never otherwise play).

Composer Browse: https://app.box.com/s/vnoeyn5277gldt3t5e6fx9f6qar11kk2
After selecting "Bartok": https://app.box.com/s/i1cgndfsmg8msv9q6ggdazv5tpb58h14
After Selecting an Album: https://app.box.com/s/s4agkg358kmk402omhb6lti53nbxt705

Random Albums view: https://app.box.com/s/wzcjw5ic3qm2r6uza9p5dltexto1fuq7

(By the way, I have tagged the files with the Album tag as the piece, rather than the CD (similar to your approach).

However, after having said all that, 7.8.0 is very good and it might well be that Zen would be reluctant to advocate 7.9.0 as it is classed as a continuingly refined "beta" version. (Although it is classed as beta it is very stable.) So I would be cautious about messing with the Zen box - though it might be worth asking Zen about 7.9.0.

The slimdevices forum is: http://forums.slimdevices.com/forum.php

(Why is it called "slimdevices" you might ask: the company that developed the Squeezebox devices and the progenitor of LMS as called SlimDevices. SlimDevices was later bought by Logitech.)

[Steerpike]

John, Thanks for this.

Until I’m more familiar with the LMS world, I think I’ll stick with 7.8 – as you say, it’s very good and even if Zen would install it for me, I couldn’t expect them to still guarantee the system. But crucially, it wouldn’t solve the ordering problem.

I very much like the appearance of your screen shots although functionally I can’t see the Composer view adds to the Album view, given that we both begin our albums with the composer name. Am I missing something? Howerver, I am tagging composers, so the field will be filled in if/when I change my mind.

Thanks too for the SlimDevices url – I’ll get into that.

Steerpike