Backing up iPads

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  • Dave2002
    Full Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 18034

    Backing up iPads

    I have taken the view until recently that tablets, such as iPads, perform a separate function from "regular" computers, and laptops. Some functionality of tablets is almost certainly better for many users, and I have recently found that an iPad Pro provides an excellent way of viewing iPlayer content. There are, however, questions regarding data and backups.

    Previous generations of iPads and iOS have shown up problems regarding transfer of data ("files") from iPads to a host computer, and while Apple have always said that backups can be done using iTunes, this has always felt somewhat clunky, and some file types, such as PDFs, don't always get backed up. Apple claim this isn't their problem, as the PDF format is not "one of theirs" - but surely the problem is that iPads have managed, at least at the surface level, to ditch the concept of "file". On most "proper" systems, there are files, and it is nearly always possible to backup up files, as they are all treated as data objects, irrespective of what they contain. In the iOS model it seems that such data is associated with Apps, and backing up data is somehow associated with the backup of each App. It appears to be a crazy system, but allegedly many people find it simpler than having to worry about files, and understand how a "proper" computer system works.

    I think more people are now using tablets, including iPads, to store data - though many are simply consuming media - audiot tracks, photos, video streams etc., some, though not all of which, is ephemeral, or can easily be obtained again from common sources if needed.

    So, how do people backup iPads, to ensure that all the more important documents/data are secure? Apple will suggust the use of iCloud, but that (arguably) doesn't work for highly confidential documents, which should never leave the control of their users. Other tablet types, based on Android or other software systems may not have such a severe backup problem, because it is possible to freely move "files" to and from a USB memory stick, or drive.

    This is particularly important to me now, as my iPad "wants" to upgrade to a newer iOS version, yet I have become aware of some people having access problems (perhaps because of an error they made ...maybe not) after an upgrade. One friend has mentioned that he has done lots of upgrades without any problems and only one bad upgrade. To me and probably many others even one bad upgrade might be one too many.

    iPhone users may also have the same concerns, though they are perhaps less likely to have many text or mixed text/diagram documents stored on their devices.
  • robk
    Full Member
    • Nov 2010
    • 167

    #2
    I think I am an "audiot"

    I rely on my PC for almost everything and can't get my head around life without files. I use the iPad for access to emails, the internet & photographs when away from home and for reading Gramophone Magazine. I do synchronise through iTunes including Outlook and have not had any problems. I would like to be able to work on spreadsheets & documents with the Word & Excel apps on the iPad but I am put off by the complications of file exchange.

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    • Dave2002
      Full Member
      • Dec 2010
      • 18034

      #3
      Originally posted by robk View Post
      I would like to be able to work on spreadsheets & documents with the Word & Excel apps on the iPad but I am put off by the complications of file exchange.
      By "work" do you mean extend, modify, create etc.? It is, as you perhaps know already, possible to look at some documents created by Word or Excel, using various tools. Some of these will translate the document into another (sometimes) readable form. In moderation it is possible to use Pages with an imported Word file, then to export it back to Word - though I have to say that the results are variable.

      Excel might be more problematical, depending on what you have, or want to have, on your iPad. I have never got on particularly well with Numbers, though it should in theory be capable of importing some Excel files.

      If you have a recent version of Word, you might also have Office 365 (bits of it seem to be creeping in with updates anyway, even on my machines .... not sure I want them .... but there is evidence of that ....). There are Office 365 Apps for Word and Excel for iOS, but I think they start invoking 365 features rather quickly - and if you've not already got into that, MS might try to hook you into a subscription service. If you only want to look at documents I think the 365 Apps for iOS will allow you to view Word and Excel files without any extra charges, though you will need an account with Microsoft, and you may not like the privacy conditions. If you're using Windows 10 you may have already "blown" your privacy, to you might just as well carry on.

      Another fix might be to use Google Drive (use to be Google Docs) in a browser - but I have grown more and more wary of some of the tools provided by companies such as Google.

      I just tried to use the Word App on my iPad, but it needs an MS account, and I'm still considering whether I want/need one. I used to have a Hotmail account years ago, which I believe was converted to Outlook.com - but that is presumably now defunct. I'm not rushing to test this further.

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      • alycidon
        Full Member
        • Feb 2013
        • 459

        #4
        There seems to be confusion all round. Some time ago I had a problem with my iPad, and when I spoke to the retailer from whom I purchased it, I was told to take it in to them, BUT 'to make sure that I backed up everything before I did so'. Now, having checked the appropriate settings, I find that a fair chunk of my iCloud capacity is shown as being used for backup.

        But is it? I really don't have much confidence in something that I cannot verify with my own two eyes, and I worry about transferring all my data to a new model - which can't be far off with the way this one is behaving. I so wish that there was a USB interchangeability as there is between my PC and my laptop.
        Money can't buy you happiness............but it does bring you a more pleasant form of misery - Spike Milligan

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        • Dave2002
          Full Member
          • Dec 2010
          • 18034

          #5
          Originally posted by alycidon View Post
          But is it? I really don't have much confidence in something that I cannot verify with my own two eyes, and I worry about transferring all my data to a new model - which can't be far off with the way this one is behaving. I so wish that there was a USB interchangeability as there is between my PC and my laptop.
          Are you using a Mac of some sort as well as the iPad? Recent OS versions should allow you to access iCloud - if you wish to, and you could download at least a reasonable proportion of your "stuff" from that to your desktop or laptop computer. I'm not sure if you can download to a Windows PC though.

          Perhaps I don't understand iCloud well enough - though I am concerned that Apple seems to be altering its behaviour from time to time. I don't like systems - even if they are supposed to help me - which don't give me enough control. In your case it would seem to be an issue that you appear to have some material backed up to iCloud - but you didn't know - and now that you may have that insight you are unsure about how to to recover the data.

          If you aren't completely against any form of cloud storage, or online storage, then you should be able to move "stuff" around using email, or other systems such as Dropbox. The irritating thing about that approach though is that it might be somewhat piecemeal, and some things may not get backed up.

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          • alycidon
            Full Member
            • Feb 2013
            • 459

            #6
            Yes, it is a PC with Windows 7 OS, and like you, I don't understand iCloud at all. Where I have tried to use it, it was very patchy as you have suggested. I'm not completely against cloud, or online storage, but like most people I do have documents relating to banking etc., that I certainly would not wish to put at risk. I imagine that these systems are not wholly secure, anyway.
            Money can't buy you happiness............but it does bring you a more pleasant form of misery - Spike Milligan

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            • Dave2002
              Full Member
              • Dec 2010
              • 18034

              #7
              I succumbed to the nagging re upgrading to 9.3.3 iOS this time round, and it seems to have been OK. The issues about how to backup "stuff" from iOS systems has not, however, gone away. In any backup process there is always going to be an element of risk, as one cannot be absolutely sure that everything will be backed up, or that everything will be retrievable, but we put trust in some systems in the belief that they have been tested, and sometimes we test them ourselves, or find that we have to recover data and are successful in doing so. This helps to build up confidence that problems can be controlled.

              Backing up data from iOS systems seems to be relatively speaking a minefield, and the apparent ease of use of iOS systems may have led to neglect in the both user and the developer communities regarding this issue.

              I still don't really know how to protect all of the material on my iPad against disasters and conditions which may require a complete device reset, and since this is a circumstance which has recently been brought to my attention by a user, it is of some concern.

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              • alycidon
                Full Member
                • Feb 2013
                • 459

                #8
                Yes. My sentiments entirely, Dave. It remains a problem for me.
                Money can't buy you happiness............but it does bring you a more pleasant form of misery - Spike Milligan

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                • Anastasius
                  Full Member
                  • Mar 2015
                  • 1860

                  #9
                  I echo all the above sentiments. I have a nagging feeling that maybe all is not well in Apple-dom. For example, when I restart my Mac and get asked for my iCloud password (which is needed to use Keychain....(I think)) it gets rejected. Yet when I go to System Preferences I am logged in. I did spend an awful lot of time with a Level 2 chap including uploading masses of system data and which was supposed to be going to Level 3. He never got back to me nor acknowledge polite email chasers. TBH it's not that important as, other than Keychain, I don't use iCloud.

                  But having said that, there does seem to be something amiss with Keychain as it has stopped 'remembering' new login details and more importantly lost at least one login account....namely Anastasius. I had to dig out the email address associated with the account and request a new password from For3 but even now, despite saying Remember Me, there is no entry in Keychain for the latest incarnation of account login details.
                  Fewer Smart things. More smart people.

                  Comment

                  • Dave2002
                    Full Member
                    • Dec 2010
                    • 18034

                    #10
                    I found this article - though it's perhaps a bit old now - and may not work fully - https://www.engadget.com/2014/02/11/...ing-the-wrong/

                    The trick about starting to do a recovery from backup to regain control of an iPad - if it still works - could be a life saver if any backup sync does not save all the data for all the apps - which is something I suspect may happen sometimes.

                    However, that would require at least one backup to have been created on a host computer - if iCloud is not used.

                    Is it possible to use an external hard drive on a host computer to store the backups? Otherwise, as some iPads may now have quite large memory capacity, it would be likely that all the available storage spage on the host would be used up - leading to some form of impasse situation.

                    This could help me, as I would be happy to dedicate one or two external hard drives for iPad backups. It's a pity Apple doesn't get its act together here, as I'm sure that many people are now using mobile devices who don't necessarily have a computer suitable for backups. Even though Time Machine has its own problems and limitations, one might have expected Apple to have incorporated iOS backups into TM, so that something like the Airport Time Capsule could be used as a stand alone backup device.

                    It should surely be possible, now, to make a fairly cheap and updated device similar to the Airport TC selling for (say) £100 which could handle iOS device backups.

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