What is a DAW?

[MrGongGong]

Yes, that seems pretty good too from my limited acquaintance with it, I got it as a package with a load of other Adobe stuff that I did actually need, and had a look around, but saw no reason to change.

There are lots of useful things like Batch Processing that you can do with something more "high end" like Audition.
I find its preferable to Protools or Logic which lots of folks like BUT it all comes down to what you are used to in the end and whether you can have a smooth workflow.

[Dave2002]

If you are using Premiere for video editing then I would get Audition, it used to be called "Cooledit" then Adobe bought the whole thing and repackaged it.
It is my audio editor of choice for precise work and simple and stable to use, will also integrate with Premiere seamlessly.

Is Audition still available? A lot of Adobe stuff is now only available under the CC subscription - which may suit some people, but I'd rather not play that game if I can avoid it. I'd rather have something which I "own" than something I have to hire on a periodic basis.

[MrGongGong]

Is Audition still available? A lot of Adobe stuff is now only available under the CC subscription - which may suit some people, but I'd rather not play that game if I can avoid it. I'd rather have something which I "own" than something I have to hire on a periodic basis.

You can still buy a boxed copy from various places.
I bought a boxed version of Premiere elements and Photoshop last year that i've had no problems with.
I'm also not keen on the CC nonsense and i'm not too bothered by "updates"
If you are on a PC I can give you a full version of Cooledit Pro (the last version before Adobe bought it) if you want?

[Dave2002]

Is Garageband really so bad?

I'm surprised that this thread has been going so long!

I've been experimenting with a whole bunch of different software, but today I revisited Garageband in Macos, and tried something different. In the past I've tried using it for Midi, but today I actually made a quick "live" multi-track recording of myself playing duets. I have "invested" in Reaper, which I've had only modest success with, and I was considering buying Logic Pro X - perhaps if only because the licensing would allow it to be used on most of the computers we have here.

I found this Youtube - https://youtu.be/5aWNeFrM6A4 - which made more sense than many others. For most of the things I might want to do it would seem that Garageband is almost identical with Logic, so apart (perhaps) from a better and more comprehensive set of virtual instruments in the full version, there's not so much incentive to pay for another package and introduce yet more complexity.

I know that some people don't like Garageband, but I do wonder if there are specific features which are a problem. Today I found it very easy to set up and use - though I have to say that I've not tried this particular exercise with this software before.

[Lordgeous]

Yes, that seems pretty good too from my limited acquaintance with it, I got it as a package with a load of other Adobe stuff that I did actually need, and had a look around, but saw no reason to change.

There's a high end video editor (which includes cut-down Fairlight DAW) as used by Hollywood etc which is completely free called Da Vinci (by Black Magic). They make it free in the hope you'll purchase the associated control panels (about £30K!). I switched to it couple of years ago. Its amazing but complicated and makes serious demands on your computer but worth checking out for simple video/audio editing. Loads of tutorials on YouTube.

[Dave2002]

There's a high end video editor (which includes cut-down Fairlight DAW) as used by Hollywood etc which is completely free called Da Vinci (by Black Magic). They make it free in the hope you'll purchase the associated control panels (about £30K!). I switched to it couple of years ago. Its amazing but complicated and makes serious demands on your computer but worth checking out for simple video/audio editing. Loads of tutorials on YouTube.

Is the Fairlight DAW in that package, or is it an integral part of Da Vinci? I alread have Da Vinci - it's a very good package, and the interface for colour controls is very good, so yes - I would recommend that as a video editor - though not necessarily the only one. As you mention, it might be a bit complex.

Do you have more details of the DAW which is associated? I found this page - https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/pro...olve/fairlight but I've not explored that yet, as I've not done much video work in the last year or so.

I think there was a really good Youtube tutorial about color [sic] grading which used Da Vinci - but things have moved on a bit, so I can't find that. There were a whole bunch of videos by one guy - I think Jerry XXXX (don't know who, now) which were very good. I really ought to have anticipated this, and kept all the links - but I didn't anticipate that so much new material would come in and flood out the older, but good, stuff.

[Lordgeous]

The Fairlight is part of the package but I've rarely used it and only for basics. I think its one of the main buttons at the foot of the page. Sorry not to be more help. Amazing that its free with only a few esoteric xtras that you get in the paid package - which I did purchase, but really no need!

[Dave2002]

The Fairlight is part of the package but I've rarely used it and only for basics. I think its one of the main buttons at the foot of the page. Sorry not to be more help. Amazing that its free with only a few esoteric xtras that you get in the paid package - which I did purchase, but really no need!

Thanks. I'll check it out.

I finally tracked down some of my earlier notes/links to videos etc. The editing course I found really useful a few years ago was by Larry Jordan, though even there it may have been superseded by an update from the original author himself. In order to find this I had to do a search in Firefox through all the history for the last N years, and eventually I realised that I'd been looking at material about Final Cut Pro - abbreviated to FCPX. Once I typed in FCPX into Firefox's search in the History list, Larry Jordan's name popped out! Phew!

I remember his tutorials mentioning the skin tone line, and color grading, but I also remember looking at Da Vinci Resolve as I think it has really good tools for colour grading. I think it can also be used for LUTs (Look up tables) for use with photo editing packages. I have used it to try to get better colour balance even in regular "still" photography.

[MrGongGong]

I know that some people don't like Garageband, but I do wonder if there are specific features which are a problem. Today I found it very easy to set up and use - though I have to say that I've not tried this particular exercise with this software before.

How long have you got ?
It's hideous IMV
and i'm not going to open it ever again

The "new" Logic is just Garageband for grown ups and as flawed as Garageband
Reaper really is the way to go IMV (and in the view of most of the folks I know who spend lots of time doing these things)

[Bryn]

How long have you got ?
It's hideous IMV
and i'm not going to open it ever again

The "new" Logic is just Garageband for grown ups and as flawed as Garageband
Reaper really is the way to go IMV (and in the view of most of the folks I know who spend lots of time doing these things)

Plus it's the ideal host for the Rode Soundfield plugin, though I am so familiar and comfortable with Sound Forge Pro that I tend to use that more. I really need to transition to using Reaper as my ambisonic DAW of choice.

[Dave2002]

How long have you got ?
It's hideous IMV
and i'm not going to open it ever again

The "new" Logic is just Garageband for grown ups and as flawed as Garageband
Reaper really is the way to go IMV (and in the view of most of the folks I know who spend lots of time doing these things)

I don’t want to disagree with you, but for my purposes I have found some features of GarageBand easy to use. I can accept that Logic is so similar that it’s not worth paying for.

I would still like just a little more explanation, without spending much time on it, why some (you) think that GarageBand is so poor.

Possible reasons might be:

1.The software is buggy
2. It lacks some features which professionals require [useful to know what]
3. Some features are impossible or awkward to use [ again, which features]
4. The documentation is poor, or non-existent
5. It takes too long to set up
6. It takes too long to use
7. The quality of the results is not good
8. The user interface is confusing
9. The way it works is confusing
10. It doesn’t work well for particular tasks, such as:
A. Live Recording
B. Working with VIs
C. Blending VIs and real instruments in real time
D. It is poor for post editing
11. It is too slow to use, and the storage requirements are unmanageable.
12. It doesn’t work well with particular external hardware and interfaces.
13. It doesn’t integrate well with other software and data systems.

All of the above are just suggested reasons, which might not actually apply to any particular DAW software - including Reaper or GB/Logic.

All I can say is that having found some very helpful videos on GB yesterday about multitracking and multiple takes, it seemed very easy to use for what I wanted to do. This may represent a false dawn, but so far it seemed OK.

Possibly I could do the same in Reaper, but I don’t know how to - yet. I haven’t found Reaper particularly easy. One aspect of Reaper which IMO really doesn’t help is the lack of inbuilt virtual instruments. This means that it is much harder to play around with when one is learning how to use it, which slows things down a lot. GB/Logic do at least come with some basic instruments, which make initial explorations much simpler.

One possibility is that the way editing works in GB/Logic is confusing - a UI issue. I have found this to be a problem with video editing. I don’t know if this is a problem for some people in the case of GB/Logic. Final Cut Pro X (again from Apple) takes some getting used to compared with Premiere, but eventually one gets the hang of it, and it really is useable. Also, so many of the “helpful” videos and tutorials about GarageBand and Logic deal with technical matters I’m not really interested in, and haven’t a clue about, which does not help.

Without adequate and appropriate documentation or other information many complex systems become completely useless, which might be a very relevant factor.

[MrGongGong]

A couple (from memoey)

1: Editing: clunky and inaccurate, poorly drawn waveform display, difficult to do simple things like finding zero crossing points etc
2: plugin support: inconsistent and unreliable for 3rd party plugins

[MrGongGong]

Plus it's the ideal host for the Rode Soundfield plugin, though I am so familiar and comfortable with Sound Forge Pro that I tend to use that more. I really need to transition to using Reaper as my ambisonic DAW of choice.

This is worth a look

http://www.ambisonictoolkit.net

[Dave2002]

A couple (from memoey)

1: Editing: clunky and inaccurate, poorly drawn waveform display, difficult to do simple things like finding zero crossing points etc
2: plugin support: inconsistent and unreliable for 3rd party plugins

Sounds like you've only been looking at the audio side.

Feature - seems useful: The multiple takes feature - introduced in 2017 - seems good - though there are some snags.
I can take (say) 10 takes of an 8 bar sequence, but then I'd really want to audition them quickly and switch between them. I haven't found any keyboard shortcuts for this yet - maybe they don't exist.

Issue - for improvement: I'm not sure that the incessant metronome is always a good thing while looping and recording. It would be useful to know when trying to record when the end of the current take is coming up (it may already have been screwed up ....) to get ready for the next take. Or even have a pause between takes. However, it is possible to live with this.

Problem - for improvement: What would be useful would be to be able to switch rapidly between takes on playback, and delete the takes which are clearly not going to work. These should be done with easy to use key strokes.

Problem: Bar numbering seems rigid - starts with 1. Doesn't seem to allow for renumbering, or for an anacrusis (up-beat). Sometimes one might want to change the bar numbering.

For what I'm using GB for right now it is fine - I can live with the limitations. The major limitations at present are my own ability to play accurately and consistently enough - but I'm working on that. I have so far given up trying to play anything complicated until I can cope with getting even very simple pieces sounding OK. I am hoping to get to multi-track with something reasonable within maybe a week.

There are good and bad things about playing along with computers. Playing with humans - there can be more flexibility - and some forgiveness. People can listen to each other, and try to get things right together - though sometimes that can be hard. Playing along with computers - hardly any forgiveness - mistakes propagate, and the odd (or not so "odd/infrequent") bad notes get recorded along with the good ones. I think that for practice purposes (on an instrument) there can be merits in trying to use computer software, as this may lead to better technical proficiency on each instrument.

[MrGongGong]

Sounds like you've only been looking at the audio side.

It's shit for MIDI as well
Ableton works
Garageband is an endless life of frustration