Microphones - Rolls Royce vs Ford Escort!

[Braunschlag]

Through the years I’ve used various devices, mostly pretty good.
Zoom - think I had a H2, then a H4. Not much between them but the build quality improved greatly as others have said. The earlier ones were terribly noisy affairs and I eventually gave up and got the Sony PCM-D50. That thing was terrific, I see someone has sung it’s praises here already. Very high quality mics, relatively easy UI, plenty of internal memory and decent battery life. I was very impressed with the built in mics. I had used a Rode NT 4 with it as well (the NT-4 is a fine stereo microphone).
And the old Tandy PZMs (both sorts, the old Crown based model and the later Mexican made ones). I have to say that the Sony did every bit of a great job as any of the others.

[Bryn]

Through the years I’ve used various devices, mostly pretty good.
Zoom - think I had a H2, then a H4. Not much between them but the build quality improved greatly as others have said. The earlier ones were terribly noisy affairs and I eventually gave up and got the Sony PCM-D50. That thing was terrific, I see someone has sung it’s praises here already. Very high quality mics, relatively easy UI, plenty of internal memory and decent battery life. I was very impressed with the built in mics. I had used a Rode NT 4 with it as well (the NT-4 is a fine stereo microphone).
And the old Tandy PZMs (both sorts, the old Crown based model and the later Mexican made ones). I have to say that the Sony did every bit of a great job as any of the others.

By today's standards, both the H2 and H4 were pretty dire. The H4, in particular, introduced a nasty low level repeating click to its recordings. Things improved greatly with their "n" upgrades, though for the H4n the 2GB file-size limit remained. I have not tried the H4n Pro, but suspect that, like the H2n, it now starts a new file seamlessly when it reaches 2GB. I have been very pleased with the H5. It works well with my AT 4033a mics, though even its shock-protected integral mics do a fair job. I sometines use them for the rear channels in 4 channel surround jig with the AT 4033a mics in vertically coincident array above and below the simmilarly vertically coincident H5 capsules.

[MrGongGong]

Through the years I’ve used various devices, mostly pretty good.
Zoom - think I had a H2, then a H4. Not much between them but the build quality improved greatly as others have said. The earlier ones were terribly noisy affairs and I eventually gave up and got the Sony PCM-D50. That thing was terrific, I see someone has sung it’s praises here already. Very high quality mics, relatively easy UI, plenty of internal memory and decent battery life. I was very impressed with the built in mics. I had used a Rode NT 4 with it as well (the NT-4 is a fine stereo microphone).
And the old Tandy PZMs (both sorts, the old Crown based model and the later Mexican made ones). I have to say that the Sony did every bit of a great job as any of the others.

Yup
Same gear as me
I've had things recorded on the PCM-D50 with the bulit in mics used on R3 if that's any measure of quality ?
It was a shame that the old PZM's were replaced with the less robust version
but it was always a way of knowing whether the teenagers I was working with had been interviewed by the police as they were extensively used in interview rooms and the phrase "it wasn't me boss" was a give away when i got the PZM out to record the music we had been making.

[Bryn]

Not, perhaps specifically belonging to this thread's title but I have only just become aware of a new Zoom device, the H3-VR, aimed principally at 'virtual reality' applications, it looks to be a low cost 'analogue' of a soundfield recorder. I have not found any reviews offering a serious technical appraisal, but it does look interesting. Possibly enough so for me to invest in some basic ios device to use with its optional remote control app. Maybe a refurbished iPad mini2 would do the trick?

THere's an interesting customer review, in German, on the Thomann site. Build quality a real, and known, problem, it would appear.

https://www.thomann.de/gb/zoom_h3_vr_reviews.htm?ar=450709&page=1&order=0&rating=0&reviewlang%5B%5D=all&reviewlang%5B%5D=4

It's the last of the three reviews that I am drawing attention to.

[Richard Barrett]

It's the last of the three reviews that I am drawing attention to.

You seem to be spot on in your earlier thought not to get one until they release a revised version!

[Bryn]

You seem to be spot on in your earlier thought not to get one until they release a revised version!

I'm also trying to find comparative reviews of the Sennheiser and Rode ambisonic arrays. SOS reviewed the latter in their December 2018 issue. I will try and find a copy in a library. I'm too mean to pay for their download service.

[Bryn]

I'm also trying to find comparative reviews of the Sennheiser and Rode ambisonic arrays. SOS reviewed the latter in their December 2018 issue. I will try and find a copy in a library. I'm too mean to pay for their download service.

I caved in and paid for a pdf of the whole December issue of SOS. The review is pretty positive. However, the Rode NT-SF1 is reported to be somewhat power hungry, each capsule consuming around 300mW, (6.2mA, 48v) of phantom power. I have emailed Zoom UK customer support to enquire whether their H6 recorder can supply such, whether from the onboard AA cells or via the USB power input.

[Bryn]

Last Sunday I headed to West End DJ's shop off Tottenham Court Road and purchased a RØDE NT-SF1. While Zoom support has advised that with an external power source, their H6 recorder should be able to handle the RØDE ambisonic mic array, they also pointed out the lack of ganged level control across all 4 XLR input channels on the H6. I therefore took the plunge and ordered one of their F4 devices from Gear4music (DV247's store in Romford not having it in stock, contrary to the claim on their website). Delivery is scheduled withinthe next 75 minutes (along with a cut-price matched pair of SE Electronics SE5 mics to use in conjuction with my aging pair of AT4033as. That gives me just 77 hours to climb the relevant learning curves before using them all to record a concert at Morley College. Crossed fingers.

[Bryn]

You seem to be spot on in your earlier thought not to get one until they release a revised version!

Well, I popped into a stockist a few weeks ago and asked to have a close look at the Zoom H3-VR. The mounting of the microphone cluster did seem a little delicate, and might indeed be problematic in conditions of strong vibrations, but even if the mounting was firmer or damped, conditions of strong vibrations would be problematic anyway. To cut a long story short, I have been keeping an eye on the Thomann price. Though it is consitenty shown as being extimated at below the £300 mark, when one tries to order, it suddenly becomes somwhat over that level. Then, last weekend, I noticed that Bax-shop were offering is for £293 including 'free' delivery. I caved in and orderd. It arrived on Tuesday and it got its first outing at iklectik on Thursday ( http://iklectikartlab.com/jamie-cole...eddie-prevost/ ), piggy-backed onto one of Giovanni La Rovere's mic. stands for his ambient mics. Very pleased with the free Zoom ambisonic player which works to re-orentate recordings and convert between ambosonic formats, stereo, binaural and 5.1 surround. The extreem portability of the H3-VR makes is ideal for field recordings.

[Dave2002]

Should that be Ambisonic? Sounds interesting.

[Bryn]

Should that be Ambisonic? Sounds interesting.

If you are referring to my use of the word "ambient", then no, I was referring Giovanni's 2 high mounted mics. placed in front of the performance area (think centre of the front row of seating), there to pick up the ambient sound in the venue, as against the spot mics, (between 2 and 5 for each of the 4 performers (no prizes for guessing who got the 5). If you meant the ambosonic[sic], then yes, a typo, now corrected. Thanks for spotting it.

[Dave2002]

Is this particular Zoom mic the only one to be fully Ambisonics compatible? Are there mics by other manufacturers which also function like that - though perhaps costing more?

Is there much interest in Ambisonics these days?

[MrGongGong]

Is this particular Zoom mic the only one to be fully Ambisonics compatible? Are there mics by other manufacturers which also function like that - though perhaps costing more?

Is there much interest in Ambisonics these days?

Loads of ambiasonics stuff about these days

York is a bit of a centre for this (as it has been for a long time)

https://www.york.ac.uk/inst/mustech/3d_audio/welcome.html

and Huddersfield folks (much talk about this last weekend at the Sonic Arts Forum meeting)

https://research.hud.ac.uk/institutes-centres/apl/resources/

(one question Dave, do you have a different internet to me? )

[Bryn]

Is this particular Zoom mic the only one to be fully Ambisonics compatible? Are there mics by other manufacturers which also function like that - though perhaps costing more?

Is there much interest in Ambisonics these days?

There is a couple of other ambisonic microphones which just about edge into the enthusiast, as against professional, end of the market. These are the Sennheiser Ambio VR, and the SoundField by RØDE NT-SF1. With the addition of a fully compatible recording device such as the Zoom F4 recording device, such alternatives start at over 4 times the cost of the little self-contained Zoom H3-VR. Either of the alternatives, however, offer significantly better results (superior mic. inserts, better build, etc). What the H3-VR has going for it is its very compact, integrated nature. Possibly tonight, and certainly tomorrow night, I plan to make simultaneous recordings of performances at iklectik using both the H3-VR and an NT-SF1/F4 combination, with the two mic. clusters close to each other.

To deal with your final paragraph, the main thrust of renewed interest in ambisonics appears to be in connection with 360° video recording for Virtual Reality applications. However, stereo and binaural and planar surround outputs such as 5.1 can be derived from the 4 ambisonic channels via suitable (free) software.

[Bryn]

Loads of ambiasonics[sic] stuff about these days

York is a bit of a centre for this (as it has been for a long time)

https://www.york.ac.uk/inst/mustech/3d_audio/welcome.html

and Huddersfield folks (much talk about this last weekend at the Sonic Arts Forum meeting)

https://research.hud.ac.uk/institutes-centres/apl/resources/

(one question Dave, do you have a different internet to me? )

That York site appeared to be poorly maintained. The first link I clicked on (Ambisonics for Steinberg's VST) was redundant. However, the other links lead to useful information.