How to (or not) record video with audio?

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  • Dave2002
    Full Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 18034

    How to (or not) record video with audio?

    Having stumbled recently across some cheapish videocam recorders, now at low prices, such as the Zoom Q2HD and Q3HD, which though discontinued may still be available from sources such as Maplin, I wonder what equipment anyone would recommend for video recording these days. Things have moved. on in the last decade. Almost all decent still cameras now do video as well - often in HD resolution, though I think that sound recording could be a major limitation, even if the video quality is good.

    Apart from giving advice such as "avoid video like the plague", which I could empathise with, as video does seem orders of magnitude harder to manage than audio, what would others suggest? I am assuming fairly modest requirements and budgets - not at the level of film and TV studios which may use video cameras or lenses valued in the £x00,000s. Some enthusuasts might want to spend £1-5000 though, which could be comparable with a good DSLR plus a modest lens or two.

    I think to do audio as well as video, either a completely separate audio system is needed, with possible post production synchronisation problems, or else a camera (or system) which can integrate with decent audio - mixers, microphones etc. I would expect that using only the microphones in cameras would generally give poor results. The Zooms are not bad at the price level, with acceptable sound, though video capabilities (e.g optical zoom) are limited. Does anyone use so called video cameras these days, now that many digital cameras for still shots now also do video?
    .
    Perhaps video is such a minority sport that very few have experiemce, or wish to gain such experience, unless thay are already professionals working in the field. Such people may already have access to decent equipment, and know what they want/need and how to use it.
  • Richard Barrett
    Guest
    • Jan 2016
    • 6259

    #2
    Video isn't a strong interest of mine, but when I've been involved in it I've made the video recording on whatever comes to hand, stripped out the audio and replaced it with a recording made with dedicated equipment. It's really not a hard thing to do, I got my head round it in a few minutes with the help of a Youtube tutorial or two. An easy way to get the synchronisation right would be with a clapperboard! but I haven't found that necessary.

    Comment

    • Eine Alpensinfonie
      Host
      • Nov 2010
      • 20572

      #3
      The sound on most video cameras is inadequate for music. In 2008, I orchestrated a medley of dance tunes from Byrd to the present day for 9 youth ensembles, each group playing a dance, with the entire company playing together to conclude. The "present day" dance was "Traslasierra", originally composed for piano by a Durham University music student - Amaya Huntly-Perez. The venue did not allow recordings, but the composer arranged for a friend to record her bit secretly on a mobile phone. Unfortunately, someone managed to delete it almost immediately. A recording of the only performance appeared to have been lost without trace.

      Several months later, I "caught" the parent of one of my youth band members videoing an outdoor concert. I asked him whether he had done so in any other concerts, which made him very cagey, until I told him he might just have become my new best friend. It turned out that he had indeed recorded the Grand Finale Medley several months earlier, and agreed to make me a CD of it. The result was interesting. A baroque minuet played by a string quartet at the beginning was just as loud as 3 orchestras, 4 bands, a percussion ensemble and a choir, all performing together at full tilt in Offenbach's most famous tune.

      However, any recording was better than none.

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      • MrGongGong
        Full Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 18357

        #4
        Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post
        The result was interesting. A baroque minuet played by a string quartet at the beginning was just as loud as 3 orchestras, 4 bands, a percussion ensemble and a choir, all performing together at full tilt in Offenbach's most famous tune.

        However, any recording was better than none.
        That's not "natural"

        I would dispute your final sentence though
        Some music is best remembered
        Sometimes no recording is better than a "good" quality one

        Comment

        • ferneyhoughgeliebte
          Gone fishin'
          • Sep 2011
          • 30163

          #5
          Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
          That's not "natural"
          Oh don't YOU start!

          [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

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          • Stunsworth
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 1553

            #6
            Despite having an interest in photography going back decades, I've never really been 'into' video, possibly because it's very, very hard to do well, and I know I'd be disappointed with my efforts.

            After saying that, I bought a new camera at the weekend (Panasonic DMC ZF330) that can capture video in 4k. I may have a play with that.
            Steve

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            • Dave2002
              Full Member
              • Dec 2010
              • 18034

              #7
              Originally posted by Stunsworth View Post
              Despite having an interest in photography going back decades, I've never really been 'into' video, possibly because it's very, very hard to do well, and I know I'd be disappointed with my efforts.

              After saying that, I bought a new camera at the weekend (Panasonic DMC ZF330) that can capture video in 4k. I may have a play with that.
              I think that messing with 4k may prove too much of a challenge. The picture quality could indeed be very good, providing you don't need to edit it. However you may find that you need to tweak it somewhat to get it to play smoothly. I had that problem with 1080HD years ago - very few computers would play one file without stuttering. Eventually I found that a very modest amount of compression using Handbrake made replay more reliable. More recent computers, for example with 16 Gbytes (or more...) of main memory, and fast (perhaps Fusion type) drives might do better, and might cope with 4k files.

              Video editing may turn out to be hard - though I hope it won't be. I would guess that a computer with a very fast processor etc. would be advantageous. Good luck with that, and let us know how you get on.

              PS interesting that camera, and not too expensive - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Panasonic-Lu...ic+lumix+fz300

              Comment

              • Stunsworth
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 1553

                #8
                Dave, I got it because it gives me a big optical zoom range at a constant f2.8. I can't see me giving up my Leica anytime soon, but it will be useful to have something longer than 50mm.

                Not it sure I'll take many 4K videos (it's more likely I'll use 1080P), it's more of a 'nice to have'.
                Steve

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                • Dave2002
                  Full Member
                  • Dec 2010
                  • 18034

                  #9
                  I have a Canon SX1IS which goes up to 500mm. It's old now (five years plus) but good for some nature photography and on safari. We also have a similar Panasonic Lumix, which doesn't have such a great zoom, but if anything the lens is better.

                  Having a long zoom does make some shots feasible (e.g. a fish eagle in a tree) but camera shake and stability are big issues, even with internal stabilisation. Your Panasonic will probably be better but you might still find that distance shots need a lot of care. As you say though, handy to have. I hope you get a lot of enjoyment from it.

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                  • mangerton
                    Full Member
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 3346

                    #10
                    Dave, you don't say what you want to record, and that can make a huge difference. I got a Panasonic HCX920 1080P a couple of years ago. I always use it on the 1080P setting, and I've been pleased with the results, which have improved as I have become more familiar with the equipment. As you say, camera shake is the biggest problem, and I almost always use a monopod, if not a tripod. Most of my video is of steam railways, so sound quality is not too much of an issue. However, I visited Bayeux last year, and wandered into the cathedral when the organist and a trumpeter were rehearsing for a wedding. When I returned home and played my surreptitious recording through the hifi, I was pleasantly surprised with the result.

                    I have a digital still camera, but I find I'm not using it as often now, because the Panny takes good still pictures, in 16:9 format which of course fit my widescreen TV and computer monitor.

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                    • Dave2002
                      Full Member
                      • Dec 2010
                      • 18034

                      #11
                      Mangerton - thanks. You're the first to declare for a true video camera - http://www.trustedreviews.com/panaso...ity-and-page-2 Seems very good, though looks as though the max frame rate (from the review) is 25 fps. I'll maybe have to read the manual.

                      For general photography I find that I do use a zoom a lot. The camera I use most at present has a 500mm equivalent zoom lens. We bought bridge cameras with good zooms some years ago for safari, and I've used mine ever since for just about everything. I keep thinking of DSLRs which I'm sure are better, but they are also heavier and perhaps in many ways less convenient. The video capabilities of both the safari cameras are good enough for general purpose use, but your video camera will probably blow them out of the water. I also have a tape based video camera, from when such things were still common, and it was used mostly for doing a very quick house inventory.

                      Re recent video, I was asked to record a live concert, and perhaps foolishly I agreed. Currently I'm battling with post production editing, and having to upgrade computer software and hardware systems as a consequence. If I'm ever asked to do the same sort of thing again I'd like to be able to do much better, though perhaps it would be even more sensible just to say no.

                      Sadly I seem to like challenges like that!

                      Comment

                      • Eine Alpensinfonie
                        Host
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 20572

                        #12
                        Surely the OP related to audio quality on video.

                        Are there video cameras with manual recording level? That's what is really needed.

                        Comment

                        • Dave2002
                          Full Member
                          • Dec 2010
                          • 18034

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post
                          Surely the OP related to audio quality on video.

                          Are there video cameras with manual recording level? That's what is really needed.
                          There are video cameras which will accept some form of sound track from external microphones, but I don't think all do that. Also if they use auto gain, or various low quality compression formats, that may be less than ideal, though perhaps more convenient.

                          One suggestion so far here is to use a separate audio recorder, and synchronise the audio with the video later. As it happens, currently I have the option to do both. Whether t's worth the extra complications ... depends!

                          Comment

                          • mangerton
                            Full Member
                            • Nov 2010
                            • 3346

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post
                            Surely the OP related to audio quality on video.

                            Are there video cameras with manual recording level? That's what is really needed.
                            Mine (referred to above) has this facility, so presumably others do too. Mine also allows the use of external microphones, which of course is a great advantage in some circumstances.

                            (P.S. I wrote this three hours ago, but obviously forgot to press "send")

                            Comment

                            • MrGongGong
                              Full Member
                              • Nov 2010
                              • 18357

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post

                              Are there video cameras with manual recording level? That's what is really needed.
                              Yes there are
                              BUT this isn't necessarily the best solution at all, "riding" manual levels works well if you have an idea of what is coming but sometimes it's not possible to anticipate.
                              Surprisingly (in some ways) the limiters on new solid state audio recorders are often really good. I have a Sony one (ok it cost £500 so not cheap) that has a very good system with none of the 'pumping' compression that I expected. It also allows you to set it to record for 5 or 10 seconds before you "start" the recording so good for not missing things, i'm not sure if there are moving image recorders that do this ?

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