Voice recognition - Siri - and privacy

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  • Dave2002
    Full Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 18009

    Voice recognition - Siri - and privacy

    I've never had a system previously which has had effective voice recognition, and hence good speech dictation facilities. The new iPad Pros have Siri, which has been available on iPhones for years. As implemented on the iPad Pro, it does seem to require an internet connection.

    Some "explanations" have been given previously, in relation to the iPhones - https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3452329?start=15 Of course, as technology develops, at any one time there are better ways of doing some things than others. A few years ago, it may have been the case that large organisations could install powerful, fast servers, perhaps with specialised hardware and software, to get some things done quickly. This has been a common feature of computer technology for decades, and thus there have been many attempts to do processing remotely, rather than locally - partly based on assumptions that the overall effectiveness of

    : send data to remote server - process on remote server - send response back to local device

    is better than

    : do all processing locally with local data.

    For some applications external data is required anyway, so one argument relating to Siri is that data is going to have to be transmitted to remote servers in any case, so the speech to text translation can be done there, in addition to any other processing which might be needed.

    The downside of using tools such as Siri is precisely that data is exported, and further that the detailed nature of the data is not known by the users.

    It clearly should be possible to do good speech to text translation locally, if the local device has sufficient computing power, storage space, and runs good algorithms, which in 2016 should at least be possible for many consumer computer tools, including some portable devices.

    Over the history of electronic computing so far, there have been numerous attempts to shift the balance betweeen local and remote computing. Many have effectively failed, due to the rapid development of more powerful devices which can be bought cheaply and used locally. The thin client models and display only devices in the twentieth century mostly failed because it gradually turned out to be cheaper to make proper computers, rather than only displays, and the separation of functionality between local and remote systems, plus the overheads of relying on network links, just did not work out.

    Simple tests show that Siri can be used to write text using word processing packages such as Pages, and in email, and it does appear to be quick. It is also possible to swear and use obscene words, and these may well be rendered correctly. Dr Johnson omitted some words from his dictionary, and is reported to have said on at least one occasion "Madam, you looked for them!" in relation to some "questionable" utterances.

    See also http://grammar.about.com/od/words/a/...Dictionary.htm where a simlar anecdote is alleged relating to two ladies.

    While this may be amusing, it might not be a good idea to do this frequently, nor to use such voice recognition tools to create documents which may be intended to be completely private.
  • richardfinegold
    Full Member
    • Sep 2012
    • 7652

    #2
    The new version of Apple TV--which I have not purchased--uses voice recognition. Now if I want to watch a moview I check the free Apps or the ones that I have already paid for (in my case, Netflix) to see if they have the movie. This involves laboriously typing in the information in to the search engines for each app. If none of them do, and I want to see the movie bad enough, I have to type the same info into the i tunes app, and if they have it, decide if I want to pay the required fee. WIth the new version suppossedly you ask Siri to find the movie, 'she' then checks all the apps, and tells you the options. A time saver to be sure, but otherwise not enough of an advantage over the old ATV to make me spend $150. Now, however, you tube has dropped support for the older version of ATV but does support the newer. Since I was watching and listening to a fair amount of you tube on ATV, I'm tempted...

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    • David-G
      Full Member
      • Mar 2012
      • 1216

      #3
      I had no idea that Siri was processed remotely and that consequently there are privacy issues. That is very interesting.

      Comment

      • Dave2002
        Full Member
        • Dec 2010
        • 18009

        #4
        Originally posted by David-G View Post
        I had no idea that Siri was processed remotely and that consequently there are privacy issues. That is very interesting.
        What is also interesting is how fast it works, and how well it seems to work. Keep thinking about that.

        Comment

        • David-G
          Full Member
          • Mar 2012
          • 1216

          #5
          I don't have an iphone so I can't try it.

          Comment

          • Dave2002
            Full Member
            • Dec 2010
            • 18009

            #6
            Originally posted by David-G View Post
            I don't have an iphone so I can't try it.
            So you, at least, won't experience any privacy issues from that source! You may, however, if you use other computing devices, with inbuilt microphones or inbuilt cameras. You may assume that you are in control, and that microphones and cameras are off, but you cannot generally be sure.

            Comment

            • Anastasius
              Full Member
              • Mar 2015
              • 1842

              #7
              Are you really that paranoid that you are concerned about someone eavesdropping on your request to order a pizza. Amongst the million other requests for similar at the same time as you are speaking to Siri ? Much better to stop using the internet completely as if they really want to monitor your every keystroke then they can/will and may even do so now as I type this.
              Fewer Smart things. More smart people.

              Comment

              • Dave2002
                Full Member
                • Dec 2010
                • 18009

                #8
                Originally posted by Anastasius View Post
                Are you really that paranoid that you are concerned about someone eavesdropping on your request to order a pizza. Amongst the million other requests for similar at the same time as you are speaking to Siri ? Much better to stop using the internet completely as if they really want to monitor your every keystroke then they can/will and may even do so now as I type this.
                I'm not sure, is my answer to your basic question. Until recently I wasn't so bothered as I figured that "they" - whoever "they' might be would find technical obstacles a sufficient barrier to possible invasions of privacy. Now I am noticing that Siri works well enough, and systems like it will very probably get much more sophisticated and powerful, that I think there is a real danger - if one perceives it as such, or perhaps even if one doesn't, that doing almost anything online will have consequences for individuals and groups as privacy gets eroded - which seems likely. Perhaps few here have returned to a computer to find an image of the room in which one was sitting 15 minutes ago shown on the display, possibly with some message attached. I have, and it is somewhat unnerving to realise that this can be done, and there are people doing that. Some will be doing that for good, and some definitely will not be.

                If you are happy to have everything that you do or say watched and listened to, at any time, whether you know or not, then don't worry about it.

                Comment

                • Anastasius
                  Full Member
                  • Mar 2015
                  • 1842

                  #9
                  TBH Dave2002, I think that there are a hundred and one other things that are more concerning re future stability, affects on ones life, etc then 'they' watching me. The reference you refer to regarding the snapshot taken from the room was, I'm guessing on a PC that had that virus on it that enabled the camera to be turned on.

                  Cyber 'warfare' in its broadest sense is way more concerning then someone eavesdropping on my pizza order. That and the 'Internet of Things' being so utterly vulnerable to hacking and that Smart (or Not-So-Smart) TV sitting in the corner and attached to your home computer network....why, what a great attack vector just sitting there. And one reason why I won't allow a Smart meter in the house.
                  Fewer Smart things. More smart people.

                  Comment

                  • Dave2002
                    Full Member
                    • Dec 2010
                    • 18009

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Anastasius View Post
                    And one reason why I won't allow a Smart meter in the house.
                    Oh dear! I have some misgivings about Smart meters - but mainly because I fear they might actually not be measuring the right things, and hence getting the charges wrong.

                    Now you have me worried if there are other issues as well. Should I write to the chairman of British Gas and have our Smart meter taken out?

                    Comment

                    • Anastasius
                      Full Member
                      • Mar 2015
                      • 1842

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Dave2002 View Post
                      ....
                      Now you have me worried if there are other issues as well. Should I write to the chairman of British Gas and have our Smart meter taken out?
                      It depends on how much faith you have in the electricity companies being able to proof their systems against cyber-attacks....since the Smart meter can be told to turn off your electricity.

                      Then again it also depends on what faith you have in your electricity company not turning you off by mistake due to 'computer error' or 'operator error'. How ling will you survive without any power and being on-hold for hours trying to get through to someone who can actually make a decision to switch you back on? That is, of course, assuming that you have a POTS phone and not one that needs to be plugged into the mains. And your computer will be down so how will you find the number anyway ?
                      Fewer Smart things. More smart people.

                      Comment

                      • David-G
                        Full Member
                        • Mar 2012
                        • 1216

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Anastasius View Post
                        .. and that Smart (or Not-So-Smart) TV sitting in the corner and attached to your home computer network....why, what a great attack vector just sitting there.
                        Just wondering how they are going to attack through a Smart TV? (Seeing I am just thinking of purchasing one.)

                        Comment

                        • Anastasius
                          Full Member
                          • Mar 2015
                          • 1842

                          #13
                          Originally posted by David-G View Post
                          Just wondering how they are going to attack through a Smart TV? (Seeing I am just thinking of purchasing one.)
                          Because it is connected to the internet via your router. Since the likes of Sony et al couldn't design a piece of software to be secure against cyber-attack and there ain't no anti-virus stuff or anything like it on a 'smart' (there is a misnomer if ever there was one) device then because your own computers are also on the same network....it won't be long before they find a way in. Having said that, you are using a Mac and so in a far better place than a PC user. You can protect yourself but needs a proper router with its own proper firewall that supports a DMZ and VLAN. I'm looking at a Cisco business router to do precisely that but there is a steep learning curve.

                          When the time comes to consider getting a new TV set I am going to steer clear as far away as I can from anything 'smart'. The internet is full of problems that people are having with non-functionality. The development life-cycle of these devices (like TVs) is far too short to do any meaningful testing. Google Sony TVs and YouView, for example. Then fast-forward a year or so (maybe even shorter) when someone like YouView or Freeview Play or someone else external to the TV set maker changes something and your 'smart' TV stops functioning. Are Sony going to come out with a fix ? Not a hope.

                          My philosophy is to buy a dumb TV and get the 'smart's elsewhere in a different box (like a Humax, for instance) for which the functionality is their core business and not a nice to have.
                          Fewer Smart things. More smart people.

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