Remastering CDs

[Stanfordian]

I have a Supraphon box set of CDs that comprises of mainly analogue from the 1970s and some digital recordings from 1997. It says on the box that the recordings have been digitally remastered. Excuse my lack of knowledge but does that include the remastering the DDD recordings?

[Bryn]

I have a Supraphon box set of CDs that comprises of mainly analogue from the 1970s and some digital recordings from 1997. It says on the box that the recordings have been digitally remastered. Excuse my lack of knowledge but does that include the remastering the DDD recordings?

Quite possibly. I have vinyl, early CD and re-mastered CD versions of Yuji Takahashi's 1975 digital recording of Cage's Sonatas and Interludes. The 2012 re-mastered version does sound somewhat better than the 1986 first appearance on CD.

[Anastasius]

wiki is quite helpful https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remaster

[Stanfordian]

wiki is quite helpful https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remaster

Hiya Anastasius,

The article is rather too technical for me.

[Stanfordian]

Quite possibly. I have vinyl, early CD and re-mastered CD versions of Yuji Takahashi's 1975 digital recording of Cage's Sonatas and Interludes. The 2012 re-mastered version does sound somewhat better than the 1986 first appearance on CD.

Thanks Bryn I guess that answers my question.

[cloughie]

Quite possibly. I have vinyl, early CD and re-mastered CD versions of Yuji Takahashi's 1975 digital recording of Cage's Sonatas and Interludes. The 2012 re-mastered version does sound somewhat better than the 1986 first appearance on CD.

How does the vinyl fare in comparison?

[Bryn]

How does the vinyl fare in comparison?

I have not played it since getting the 1986 CD release. I played the LP a great many times before I got that CD. It had thus seen better days. I do recall immediately finding even the 1986 CD an improvement. I never did get Yuji Takahashi's earlier analogue recording of the work in its Vinyl version, but did get its CD remastering earlier this year.

[ardcarp]

I occasionally meet musicians who are convinced that vinyl LPs have a far superior sound quality to CDs and other digital forms of reproduction. Frankly I don't get it! When CDs came along, they consigned cassette tapes (remember those?) and LPs to an inferior sound-world as far as I am concerned. So what is it about lovers of vinyl? Is it (a) an antiquarian mind-set (B) nostalgia (c) wrongheadedness....or (d) am I somehow deluded?

[teamsaint]

I really don't know about the sound quality, as there are so many variables.

But vinyl can have advantages.
a). an aid to concentration, and listening. it all too easy to put on an 80 minute CD and let it rattle away.
b).in rock/pop ( and other genres) you get a proper track listing/running order, as designed for the original album. (Not always, but usually better than a CD track listing).
c). affects the other senses ,( sight smell, touch) in a way that CDs can't.
d). better , easier, more comprehensive packaging. ( OK you could put a CD in a 12" sleeve.)
d). good ones reproduce sound in a more than adequate way.
e). our vinyl collections have all the emotional power ( and possibly more) of our CD collections, and it was so much harder to find/afford.

and so on.....

[Dave2002]

I occasionally meet musicians who are convinced that vinyl LPs have a far superior sound quality to CDs and other digital forms of reproduction. Frankly I don't get it! When CDs came along, they consigned cassette tapes (remember those?) and LPs to an inferior sound-world as far as I am concerned. So what is it about lovers of vinyl? Is it (a) an antiquarian mind-set (B) nostalgia (c) wrongheadedness....or (d) am I somehow deluded?

One problem is that very few people have equipment which will play vinyl records well. Most collectors of classical music have moved on to CDs. I can say that I've heard LPs played on very good equipment a few times, and been very surprised at how good they sounded, but that in itself is not a recommendation. If CDs are played on similarly expensive equipment they may also sound as good, or better.

For LPs made before say 1975, it is possible that the vinyl versions may sound better on very good equipment, as a CD of the same material would have to be a remastered version, possibly made from degraded analogue tapes. On the other hand, despite problems with source degradation, it is possible that digital remastering might compensate to some extent for the deficiencies, leading to a good or better result.

For recordings made in more recent times, the original masters are themselves digital, so it's really hard to see how putting the contents on a physical medium such as a vinyl disc could lead to any improvement.

There has been a long history of recording to vinyl, and companies have not always (hardly ever?) made discs which are neutral in sound quality. Thus in America, recording companies noted in one period that many people had affordable record players which coloured the sound in certain ways, and they figured out ways to "optimise" the transfer to disc in order to increase user acceptability - what most people liked - and also sales. Filtering and manipulation of the sound quality in generating discs has been a long established practice, and may still affect the way people react to reproduction of vinyl discs.

It is also possible (likely?) that digital sources are also manipulated by some companies in order to increase user acceptability and also sales.

[richardfinegold]

I dusted off the turntable Sunday and played some of the Kubelik Mahler cycle. It reminded me quickly of why I was so happy to get away from vinyl. The surface noise, the dust balls on the stylus, the Lps surfaces that look ok but sound like bubble wrap...argh!!! I had invested in a vinyl playback system but I get so little enjoyment that I am seriously considering
Selling the whole thing and creating some badly needed space on the equipment rack. With vinyl is gaining popularity this is probably the time to do it

[Ferretfancy]

I dusted off the turntable Sunday and played some of the Kubelik Mahler cycle. It reminded me quickly of why I was so happy to get away from vinyl. The surface noise, the dust balls on the stylus, the Lps surfaces that look ok but sound like bubble wrap...argh!!! I had invested in a vinyl playback system but I get so little enjoyment that I am seriously considering
Selling the whole thing and creating some badly needed space on the equipment rack. With vinyl is gaining popularity this is probably the time to do it

If the LPs are properly looked after, dust balls should be a rarity. Many people tried for years to enjoy vinyl by playing it with ultra lightweight pickups, acting on the principle that it reduced record wear. For a large part of the time this meant that the discs simply weren't being tracked properly, with resulting surface noise and groove damage. A low compliance moving coil cartridge functioning at a tracking weight approaching 2 grams will give excellent results on a good system, and also preserve precious discs. This matters, because there are still plenty of fine recordings which have not appeared on CD.

I would suggest that modestly priced CD players are engineered to a higher standard than most vinyl players were, it's necessary to compare like with like. Upgrade the disc player and it will compete better with a CD equivalent,

Incidentally, digital recording requires a block filter which cuts off the frequencies above the normal range. Early filters were not very good, and introduced lower frequency artefacts into the system within the audible range. This was partly responsible for the glassy top and stridency on early digital CD masterings which many listeners complained about. As in the early days of LP, many analogue master tapes were transferred to digital, and of course continue to be so, and so early re-masterings suffered from similar faults.

I'm not claiming that we have reached nirvana yet, but anything re- issued on CDs today, whatever the source, should be detectably improved with the use of better equipment and superior digital design. ( I still love my LPs and CDs it really isn't necessary to disparage any of the music carriers, they all have their virtues)

[Stunsworth]

By something of a coincidence I should be collecting my turntable/arm Roksan Xerses/Artemis) from repair on Saturday.

I've not played any LPs for around 15 years or so, should be interesting. Still have a few thousand LPs, so no lack of 'software'.

Depending how it goes I could be looking a record cleaning machine of some kind.

[richardfinegold]

If the LPs are properly looked after, dust balls should be a rarity. Many people tried for years to enjoy vinyl by playing it with ultra lightweight pickups, acting on the principle that it reduced record wear. For a large part of the time this meant that the discs simply weren't being tracked properly, with resulting surface noise and groove damage. A low compliance moving coil cartridge functioning at a tracking weight approaching 2 grams will give excellent results on a good system, and also preserve precious discs. This matters, because there are still plenty of fine recordings which have not appeared on CD.

I would suggest that modestly priced CD players are engineered to a higher standard than most vinyl players were, it's necessary to compare like with like. Upgrade the disc player and it will compete better with a CD equivalent,

Incidentally, digital recording requires a block filter which cuts off the frequencies above the normal range. Early filters were not very good, and introduced lower frequency artefacts into the system within the audible range. This was partly responsible for the glassy top and stridency on early digital CD masterings which many listeners complained about. As in the early days of LP, many analogue master tapes were transferred to digital, and of course continue to be so, and so early re-masterings suffered from similar faults.

I'm not claiming that we have reached nirvana yet, but anything re- issued on CDs today, whatever the source, should be detectably improved with the use of better equipment and superior digital design. ( I still love my LPs and CDs it really isn't necessary to disparage any of the music carriers, they all have their virtues)

I think that with the advances in digital technology, the faults of CDs are now a lot more tolerable than the short comings with lps ever will become. I spent a good part of a slow day at work trying to figure out what I might be able to get for my vinyl playing set up (Clearaudio Concept tt and mc Cartridge, Musical Surroundings PreAmp) and also where I can find a home for the lps.

[Conchis]

I dusted off the turntable Sunday and played some of the Kubelik Mahler cycle. It reminded me quickly of why I was so happy to get away from vinyl. The surface noise, the dust balls on the stylus, the Lps surfaces that look ok but sound like bubble wrap...argh!!! I had invested in a vinyl playback system but I get so little enjoyment that I am seriously considering
Selling the whole thing and creating some badly needed space on the equipment rack. With vinyl is gaining popularity this is probably the time to do it

Totally agree. I don't believe in the 'romance of vinyl', which I'm sure is industry-sponsored.

You aren't going to hear Mahler or Wagner to maximum effect on vinyl.