"Most BBC radio stations to become unavailable for international users"

[Roger Webb]

Yes, "MusicCast" is the Yamaha terminology I neglected to mention.

I have R-N803 (plus CD-N301) in the living room, WXA-50 in the kitchen/dining room, and a pair of WX-021 in main bedroom. Also a pair of WX-010 plus a WXAD-10 still boxed from our house move in 2020 !

The switch to "Airable" happened in March 2019 as far as I can tell, so predates all this. The subsequent "Airable" (if that is where it was applied) fix to get BBC stations back was not device-independent, it required a firmware update at the receiving end to apply it. Eventually my WX-021s got that fix, so I'm grateful I can once again listen to BBC stations in the bedroom. All of my other Yamaha kit is on a list of items that will NEVER receive that update. They say it's a technical issue, but of course the WX-021 happens to be the one that was still on sale when the BBC pulled the plug on shoutcast ;-) Best I can say about Yamaha is that aftermarket support for their motorcycles is even worse. I have no information about support for their pianos and guitars !

Thanks for the tips on international streams, not had chance to try them yet.

Sorry to hear about that, my situation is about as bad, which is why I've gone over to using a tablet for radio generally. I use all Quad stuff and their control app. (Playfi) is in the process of going over to TuneIn app. for internet radio. This is totally useless in the UK for both BBC and foreign stations.....but the manufacturers are still selling units with the promise of internet radio.

I think you are totally right about BBC ditching Shoutcast...they want us all to use Sounds app. to give the 'bean counters' something to do!

[Hadrian_Bolt]

This is what the BBC say about ending "shoutcast" streaming in 2023:

"Ending support for Shoutcast will enable us to focus on the two most popular technologies currently used – HLS and DASH. This will allow us to understand more about how and where our content is consumed and will help us improve the services we offer to our listeners."

So it's not about cost (I believe that as the old technology was already paid for), or even limiting listening overseas (I don't believe that), but about gathering listening statistics.

Forgive me, but doesn't one of the "B's" in BBC stand for "Broadcasting" ? The definition of that word must have changed in the BBC dictionary.

[Hadrian_Bolt]

Yes, "MusicCast" is the Yamaha terminology I neglected to mention.

I have R-N803 (plus CD-N301) in the living room, WXA-50 in the kitchen/dining room, and a pair of WX-021 in main bedroom. Also a pair of WX-010 plus a WXAD-10 still boxed from our house move in 2020 !

The switch to "Airable" happened in March 2019 as far as I can tell, so predates all this. The subsequent "Airable" (if that is where it was applied) fix to get BBC stations back was not device-independent, it required a firmware update at the receiving end to apply it. Eventually my WX-021s got that fix, so I'm grateful I can once again listen to BBC stations in the bedroom. All of my other Yamaha kit is on a list of items that will NEVER receive that update. They say it's a technical issue, but of course the WX-021 happens to be the one that was still on sale when the BBC pulled the plug on shoutcast ;-) Best I can say about Yamaha is that aftermarket support for their motorcycles is even worse. I have no information about support for their pianos and guitars !

Thanks for the tips on international streams, not had chance to try them yet.

[Roger Webb]

But back to the current topic. I was enjoying listening to BBC stations (in the UK) on "Yamaha" kit which received internet streams. That is until mid-2023 when the BBC decided to discontinue their "shoutcast" streams. Presumably to stop overseas listeners from enjoying them (World Service does remain on shoutcast). Result for me was that I had to buy and fit some aerials, and buy a tuner for the dining room where there was no existing FM or DAB option.
What a great way of alienating the licence-payer !

I still don't regret having the Yamaha kit (with streaming capability) in three rooms. Especially because of France Musique which offers an ever-growing number of great music streams to which I find myself listening more and more. No commercials, I assume the French taxpayer pays for it. I'm grateful.

.

Welcome to the forum.

I agree with you about Radio 3 disappearing from the aggregators of internet radio....I assume as a Yamaha owner you use the MusicCast app. which was using airable - I had thought that airable had done a deal and you could still get the BBC stations on it.

There is a thread called 'Classical music stations ONLINE' that may be of interest...a lot of us now listen to stations such as the Helsinki based YLE. I use WDR3, NPO4, BR Klassik, SWR2 and RBB3, mainly for evening concerts. An easy way is to use the Vradio app. I find, but you need to get it from your device to the streamer as it's not native to any of the control apps.

[Hadrian_Bolt]

Oh, how we wish this was the only awful decision made by the BBC in recent years. From rigged Blue Peter votes and competitions to the Jimmy Saville embarrassment. Sometimes it seems like they have a death-wish.

But back to the current topic. I was enjoying listening to BBC stations (in the UK) on "Yamaha" kit which received internet streams. That is until mid-2023 when the BBC decided to discontinue their "shoutcast" streams. Presumably to stop overseas listeners from enjoying them (World Service does remain on shoutcast). Result for me was that I had to buy and fit some aerials, and buy a tuner for the dining room where there was no existing FM or DAB option.
What a great way of alienating the licence-payer !

I still don't regret having the Yamaha kit (with streaming capability) in three rooms. Especially because of France Musique which offers an ever-growing number of great music streams to which I find myself listening more and more. No commercials, I assume the French taxpayer pays for it. I'm grateful.

I do understand the "broadcast rights" issues, satellite broadcasting tries to enforce this by having satellite aerials which "target" only the territories for which the transmission is intended. But with a big enough dish that could always be circumvented. And now with the internet, "dodgy" workarounds for territorial limits abound. The net result of the BBC's decision is that the rest of the world will listen to BBC stations (if they still want to) using "pirate" streams.

[Retune]

Terrible decision on top of the existing cuts to the World Service (not to mention the brutal slashing of our overseas aid budget - Brexit Britain, it seems, continues to withdraw into its own shell). On a purely selfish note, I suppose this means having the poorly designed BBC Sounds app shoved further down my throat. I don't want to 'explore deeper context and analysis on select topics, gaining a richer understanding of the issues that matter most—all without leaving the platform', I just want to go straight to the live stream without all that nonsense. Even as it is, I seem to have to find a new streaming URL every other week to continue listening to R3 on my preferred radio app, but soon that may not be an option. Perhaps they'll kill off the remaining RSS feeds for BBC podcasts too, and everything will be forced through Sounds.

[Ein Heldenleben]

This move kind of explains the transfer of drama and speech off Radio 3 and onto Radio 4
- see the other thread.
Drama and speech has much less music rights cost and so can remain accessible overseas.
By the way will Ireland count as international or as "UK" in this context?

That’s a very good question- I’m pretty sure it doesn’t count as UK for rights reasons but would come under the EU TV Region . In practice it’s impossible to prevent people in the Republic picking up BBC services and there are very good historical reasons for allowing them to do so. At one point I think BBC TV was rebroadcast “unofficially” through land based retransmission . Now it’s recognised that it’s not practical to prevent digital reception . But I’m pretty sure the iPlayer is not available in the Republic. I’m told there are quite a few RTÉ viewers in the North but I’ve never seen any figures.

[Forget It (U2079353)]

This move kind of explains the transfer of drama and speech off Radio 3 and onto Radio 4
- see the other thread.
Drama and speech has much less music rights cost and so can remain accessible overseas.
By the way will Ireland count as international or as "UK" in this context?

[Ein Heldenleben]

My initial reaction on a quick scan of posts here was this question the BBC could pose "it will cost £xxxxxxxx to grant rights to access Sounds out of the UK. Foreign Office - would you like to pay £xxxxx to extend the UK's soft power?". After being lumbered with the costs of benefit payments (over75's free licences) restraint of licence fees and other undermining maneouvres from Geo Osborne and his like, I'm not sure the BBC are to be blamed for a hard nosed view of expenditure.

I recall reading in Private Eye that the Dept Culture (etc) have been searching for a way to preserve the BBC - the criminalisation of the very poor non-licence fee payers (disproportionately women) is simply unacceptable. It has found the options closing off - a levy on streamers etc. IIRC (not 100% sure) running into potential conflict with the Tech giants who have recently prostrated themselves and paid their way into the Court of the Bronzed Man Child at Mar A Largo. Conflict which it has to be said we cannot afford)

I also agree with the sentiment before - we are a benighted country - for a start, not as prosperous as we think we are - not in relation to the standard of living, in all respects private and societal, that we have come to expect.

A levy of on streamers isn’t going to happen with Trump in the White House . It’ll be perceived as a back door tariff

There is no current technical solution to BBC funding which satisfies the following three tests other than the much maligned licence fee
- universality of access . Subscription doesn’t work for those who use free to air services eg set top boxes and Aerials - there are millions of them
- impact on other Public services broadcasters - adverts on the BBC would destroy ITV C4 and C5’s revenue base overnight
- independence of the BBC . Funding through taxation would move the BBC towards state broadcaster status. What happens then is the situation in France and Italy where the state broadcasters are perceived rightly or wrongly as Government mouthpieces. Of course the endless tinkering with the licence fee by both political parties has led to the same sort of perception here.

in the last twenty five years there have been at least a half dozen reviews into BBC funding - they always come up with the licence fee as the only practical means of funding.

the future for UK domestic owned media is bleak. ITV will almost certainly get taken over by a US or Middle East conglomerate. C4 is teetering on the brink and the BBC has been cut to the bone - largely for political reasons.
I hope you enjoy Apple Netflix and Amazon - pretty soon that’s what will be left.

[LMcD]

I also agree with the sentiment before - we are a benighted country - for a start, not as prosperous as we think we are - not in relation to the standard of living, in all respects private and societal, that we have come to expect.

We may not be as prosperous as we were, but we do have a VERY SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP with wotsisname in Pennsylvania Avenue.

[Cockney Sparrow]

The BBC licence fee income is about £3,8 billion . The total radio budget is about £500 million. Where it gets complicated is that the BBC has about £1,8 billion of commercial income but I suspect the overwhelming part of that is earned by TV (esp drama and documentaries) and online . It’s estimated that if the licence fee had gone up by inflation the BBC would have had 1,2 billion of extra income. Go back twenty years and, it would be even more. The consequence - an estimated 30 per cent less UK originated television , the trashing of local radio and much of regional television and more chat , less live music on Radio 3.

My initial reaction on a quick scan of posts here was this question the BBC could pose "it will cost £xxxxxxxx to grant rights to access Sounds out of the UK. Foreign Office - would you like to pay £xxxxx to extend the UK's soft power?". After being lumbered with the costs of benefit payments (over75's free licences) restraint of licence fees and other undermining maneouvres from Geo Osborne and his like, I'm not sure the BBC are to be blamed for a hard nosed view of expenditure.

I recall reading in Private Eye that the Dept Culture (etc) have been searching for a way to preserve the BBC - the criminalisation of the very poor non-licence fee payers (disproportionately women) is simply unacceptable. It has found the options closing off - a levy on streamers etc. IIRC (not 100% sure) running into potential conflict with the Tech giants who have recently prostrated themselves and paid their way into the Court of the Bronzed Man Child at Mar A Largo. Conflict which it has to be said we cannot afford)

I also agree with the sentiment before - we are a benighted country - for a start, not as prosperous as we think we are - not in relation to the standard of living, in all respects private and societal, that we have come to expect.

[hmvman]

(‘Septic Isle’ is Arthur Daley malapropising Shakespeare, if I remember right…)

Could be appropriate, though, given the antics of our water companies....

[oliver sudden]

My late father-in-law (who was South African) used to refer to us as the Benighted Kingdom, which I found a tad patronising.

(‘Septic Isle’ is Arthur Daley malapropising Shakespeare, if I remember right…)

[Roger Webb]

I can(and do) listen to such stations on my PC - but not to Sounds... It is possible that the lack of ancillary equipment such as separate speakers is the issue, but the lack of adequate volume even when I am sitting right beside the box of tricks, whereas I can generally hear the online stations adequately across the room does not engender positive feelings towards the Beeb!

The BBC, to its credit broadcasts at a higher dynamic range - especially on live concerts - an effect of this on high quality streams is to make the average level seem lower. Many European stations limit the dynamic range to all delivery methods, DAB, FM and internet streams....just listen to France Music live concerts! One minute, during a quiet bit, you can hear every shuffle and cough in the audience, next the orchestra comes in tutti and it disappears to the back of the stage. FM in this country used to be like this ( maybe it still is), but the stream online is not compressed at source...although the AAC codec is a form of compression, it is much more subtle than simply turning the wick up on quiet bits and down on the loud ones!

[Ein Heldenleben]

Ok . I tend to assume that most people know that a modest part of the fee pays for national and local radio.

The BBC licence fee income is about £3,8 billion . The total radio budget is about £500 million. Where it gets complicated is that the BBC has about £1,8 billion of commercial income but I suspect the overwhelming part of that is earned by TV (esp drama and documentaries) and online . It’s estimated that if the licence fee had gone up by inflation the BBC would have had 1,2 billion of extra income. Go back twenty years and, it would be even more. The consequence - an estimated 30 per cent less UK originated television , the trashing of local radio and much of regional television and more chat , less live music on Radio 3.