HIgh speed data transfers from PVRs

[Dave2002]

I have a Humax Foxsat PVR. It is possible to transfer video (or audio) files to an external hard drive, which is usesful sometimes when space runs out. However, it does take quite a while - sometimes as much as 5 or 10 minutes even for some fairly short programmes.

Typically the files for a 1 hour programme in HD are a bit more than 2 Gbytes, and some long films will exceed the limit for FAT32 - so are more than 4 Gbytes.

Once the files are on a hard drive, it is very much faster to copy them off onto another hard drive via a fast computer - I think usually at least 10 times faster.

I wonder if newer PVRs have the facilitiy to do much faster data transfers.

[neiltingley]

I have a Humax Foxsat PVR. It is possible to transfer video (or audio) files to an external hard drive, which is usesful sometimes when space runs out. However, it does take quite a while - sometimes as much as 5 or 10 minutes even for some fairly short programmes.

Typically the files for a 1 hour programme in HD are a bit more than 2 Gbytes, and some long films will exceed the limit for FAT32 - so are more than 4 Gbytes.

Once the files are on a hard drive, it is very much faster to copy them off onto another hard drive via a fast computer - I think usually at least 10 times faster.

I wonder if newer PVRs have the facilitiy to do much faster data transfers.

A USB3.0 or sata port would do the trick. Or just whip out the HDD!

[Dave2002]

A USB3.0 or sata port would do the trick. Or just whip out the HDD!

That has to be a modification to the PVR. Perhaps new ones are like that.

[johnb]

I have the Humax HDR-Fox-T2 and, from what I gather, there are some similarities to the Humax Foxsat-HDR (but there are also differences).

Anyway, based on the HDR-Fox-T2:

Firstly a bit of background:
All the video files on the internal HDD are encrypted and the encryption is tied to the specific machine the recordings are made on. Additionally each video file has "sidecar" files which contain:
- data about the video (*.hmt)
- timeline data (*.nts)
- the HDR-Fox-T2 also has a thumbnail image (.thm) file but I believe the Foxsat-HDR deals with thumbnails in a different way.

When the videos are copied to the USB the video file is decrypted (which takes time), additionally the Humax USB port is pretty slow (about 27 GB/hr to transfer non-encrypted video).

Whipping out the HDD is pointless because of the encryption and because the files can only be decrypted on the specific machine they were recorded on.

There is one work around I discovered that might or might not work with the Foxsat-HDR. It can be used with Windows Media Player together with a browser, say Firefox. I realise that you use a MAC, but there is probably similar MAC software that can be used.
- Open Windows Media Player
- The Humax should show up under "Other Libraries" (as a DLNA server)
- Right click on the selected .ts file and select "Properties"
- Copy the "Location" (you have the scroll the field to get it all)
- Paste into the browser
- If you have set the browser to ask for a download location it will show a dialogue box and you can substitute the correct filename for what shows up (which is something like "1234.ts"). The correct filename can be copied from the WMP Properties 'Content' tab.
- If you have the browser set to automatically download a file - the video will be automatically downloaded with a filename similar to "1234.ts".

Written out, it all seems much more laborious than it is in practice. It is significantly faster than the copy to a USB HDD.

I am very fortunate in having the HDR-Fox-T2 as there is an outstandingly good custom firmware (and web interface) package for that machine. There is also a custom firmware package for the HDR-Foxsat but it is developed by a different person and I have no experience of it, so I can't express an opinion on it.

As an example of my setup, using the Custom Firmware for the HDR-Fox-T2:

- There is a Web Interface to control various aspects of the Humax, browse the videos, copy and paste, install packages and do maintenance jobs.
- All SD recordings on the Humax are automatically decrypted on the box
- All HD recordings have the protection flag reset and are automatically decrypted on the box.
- The decryption is very useful as without it all the recordings on the Humax HDD would be irrevocably lost if the Humax dies.
- Installed NFS on the Humax which enables me to set the Humax box as a network share on my Ubuntu server
- Installed Samba on the Humax box which enables the Humax box to be set as a network share on my Windows PC (I only enable Samba on the Humax as and when I want the facility)
- Installed SSH and rsync on the Humax which enables me to maintain a 'mirror' of the Humax HDD on my server, which I update once a week (the transfer speed for this is around 36GB/hr)
- Installed a network-share package on the Humax which enables videos held on a network server HDD to be seen as a network-share on the Humax and can be accessed and played as if they are on a USB connected HDD (with fast forward/backward, subtitles, etc)
- etc, etc

One thing worth mentioning is that the Standard Definition .ts files on the HDR-Fox-T2 are actually in M2TS format (though with a .ts filetype). Standard .ts files (and the freeview broadcast streams) have a 188 byte packet size but the Humax adds a 4 byte timestamp, making the packet size 192 bytes (i.e. m2ts). Most players have no problem in playing the Humax .ts files but some do balk at them - presumably because of the m2ts format. Of course, it is always possible to convert the Humax .ts (m2ts) files to 'standard' .ts files with the appropriate software, with no loss in quality.

[Dave2002]

It is interesting to note that the files are encrypted on the internal drive, and that might just be a reason why copying to an external drive is so slow. It is very slow on our Foxsat device, though I think it's faster than our sigificantly earlier Humax Freesat unit - which is languishing somewhere else in our house now.

I do wonder whether newer pvrs would have a USB 3 interface, and if that would be faster, or if the encryption is the limitation.

We do also have a BT sourced YouView box, which is a variant from Humax of a Freesat box. However, I naively assumed it would be possible to copy files from that one, but I don't think it's an available feature - which may be an oversight, or possibly deliberate.

I'm not sure whether the limitations on pvrs are purely due to the rate of technical developments over the years, or if there's been an element of "you're not really supposed to record this stuff anyway - go out and buy the DVD or Blu Ray if you want a permanent collection ..."

Technically there doesn't seem to be any major reason why copying to external hard drives should be a major issue these days, though content providers and various broadcasters may still want to impose conditions and make it hard to do. However that would seem to be moderately pointless, given the possibility of recording using computers and various other devices which make it possible to record both broadcast data in real time, and also streamed/downloaded data at faster than real time playback rates.

[johnb]

Dave, I might be wrong but I suspect that the speed bottle neck with the USB isn't the port itself and although the decryption process obviously has some bearing on the speed it is interesting that when streaming a file to my W7 PC the transfer speed is higher than when copying it to a USB HDD (even including decryption). This despite the ethernet speed being limited by the 100 mbps port on the Humax.

The Humax HDR-Fox T2 has limited processing power and I suspect that is a significant factor.

PS I *think* that the Foxsat-hdr might only encrypt HD programmes, not SD, whereas the HDR-Fox T2 (for Freeview) encrypts both.