CDs with 'terminal disease'

[smittims]

I don't know if this has been discussed before; I heard about it on Radio 3 but it's only recently affected me.

'The perfect sound, for ever' they told us forty years ago when the first CDs came out at £13.99. Hmm, well, I played one a few months ago which had aways played perfectly but suddenly the signal jumped backwards and forwards and faltered. Yesterday it was another, both incidentally Wyastone CDs of old Lyrita recordings. Cleaning has no effect, nor does trying it on another player.

The radio programme I heard referred to a 'golden' or mottled colouration on the disc itself. Its odd ot think of a digital product 'ageing' almost like an organic substance, but this seems to be what's happened. Luckily I still have my old Lyrita LPs.

Has anyone else noticed this? .

[Pulcinella]

Known more commonly as bronzing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_disc_bronzing

I don't know what Lyrita's replacement policy is (Hyperion's was very good and probably still is) but it might be worth contacting them.

[vinteuil]

.

... this is 'CD bronzing'. Hyperion is among the labels that suffered : I had a couple, which were replaced immediately.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_disc_bronzing

.

[Sir Velo]

May I suggest streaming as the answer?

[AuntDaisy]

May I suggest streaming as the answer?

You could well be right about streaming, but I still like to have a physical medium & booklet to fondle.

I've read that skipping can be also caused by dust on the lens of the laser inside the CD player, but haven't been brave enough to open up my Technics CD changer...

Bronzing has happened to several of my ASV CDs, for example this "Buxtehude: Organist at Lubeck" one (with a normal CD above for comparison).

[Pulcinella]

You could well be right about streaming, but I still like to have a physical medium & booklet to fondle.

And of course it has to be available to stream!

I've read that skipping can be also caused by dust on the lens of laser inside the CD player, but haven't been brave enough to open up my Technics CD changer.

I'm sure it can.

Bronzing has happened to several of my ASV CDs, for example this.....

I wouldn't be too sure that that's actually bronzing that would affect the playing (underneath) surface.
A lot of early CDs had that sort of top-layer discolouration, I think, which had no effect on their playability.

[Dave2002]

May I suggest streaming as the answer?

Streaming puts one at the mercy of the streaming service. However that might be the lesser of two evils if older CDs are not recoverable. I think it is sometimes possible to make digital copies of faulty CDs using software which copies the data slowly, possible multiple times and doing error correction as it does so. As I recall one piece of software was called Exact Audio Copy - EAD.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exact_Audio_Copy though this appears to be for Windows computers only. I don't know if there is an Apple or Linux equivalent.

Scratches on CDs can be "corrected" using very mild abrasives - such as toothpaste - but don't use Brillo pads. Once one has a good digital copy - if that turns out to be feasible - make a new CD ROM right away.

Of course many people don't have CD, DVD etc. readers or writers attached to their computers nowadays. I have recovered a few CDs using the methods described here.

[AuntDaisy]

...
I wouldn't be too sure that that's actually bronzing that would affect the playing (underneath) surface.
A lot of early CDs had that sort of top-layer discolouration, I think, which had no effect on their playability.

Sadly, the Buxtehude does skip esp. the later tracks, as does "Kinloche His Fantassie" and a few others.
But you're right, the "silver" layer is barely discoloured compared to the top - I suspect it's just a matter of time, solid state diffusion & oxidation (sulphidisation?) being what they they are.

Classical Net have a long list of possibly affected CDs.
On the plus side, my ASV Carver 3 is fine, even though they show it as an example. Carver 2 is a tad discoloured, so I bought a spare copy.

[smittims]

Many thanks for these suggestions.

[Master Jacques]

May I suggest streaming as the answer?

Sorry to get into the old, circular debate, but streaming isn't really "the answer" to bronzing, for those of us who require ritual elements ... not to mention booklet liner notes and full libretti (for operas) to hold in our hand, rather than keeping us glued to our computer screens. The point is, to get away from those dominating desktops, laptops and mobile phones.

Bronzing is a growing problem, which certainly does eat away at the disc's data and our ability to play it, in nearly all cases. Lyrita fell into a pit a few years ago with thinking they could get away with using CD-Rs instead of properly mass-produced CDs - with the results that many of us experience. I'm sure that they'll be helpful if they're written to.

They have gone back to proper CDs now, as a result of the mass failure of many of those CD-Rs.

[AuntDaisy]

Sorry to get into the old, circular debate, but streaming isn't really "the answer" to bronzing, for those of us who require ritual elements ... not to mention booklet liner notes and full libretti (for operas) to hold in our hand, rather than keeping us glued to our computer screens. The point is, to get away from those dominating desktops, laptops and mobile phones.

Bronzing is a growing problem, which certainly does eat away at the disc's data and our ability to play it, in nearly all cases. Lyrita fell into a pit a few years ago with thinking they could get away with using CD-Rs instead of properly mass-produced CDs - with the results that many of us experience. I'm sure that they'll be helpful if they're written to.

They have gone back to proper CDs now, as a result of the mass failure of many of those CD-Rs.

Thanks Master Jacques. Loved "ritual elements"

You've now got me worried about the small number of Nimbus CDs I have.
This 2014 "Regarding the CD roms used by Lyrita and Nimbus" thread made interesting reading...

[richardfinegold]

My regular CDs haven’t bronzed. I had made many CD-Rs in the nineties when I had a CD recorder and they have bronzed but with one exception are still playable. I had made these to have CDs to play in the car or a portable CD player and in most cases I still have original CD, but some of the originals have gone missing. Frequently the originals are in jewel cases that have become unwieldy with time and the jewel cases of the copies are easier to deal with

[Old Grumpy]

Thanks Master Jacques. Loved "ritual elements"

Ah yes, that must be what vinyl junkies get their kick from - never understood the vinyl fetish* myself, but I do get M Jaques' reference in relation to CDs. Streaming has its uses, but does not replace the pleasure of a CD.

__________________________________________________ ______

* Autocorrect tried to change this to
vanilla fetishism - you can't be too careful these days!

[Master Jacques]

* Autocorrect tried to change this to
vanilla fetishism - you can't be too careful these days!

Contrariwise, I rather like the idea of 'vinyl ice-cream'.

I'm also glad to hear that I am not alone in finding the ritual element of taking CDs out of their jewel cases (such an apt name) is as much part of the pleasure as taking LPs out of their paper sleeves used to be. This is something which soulless streaming misses. It is a commoditization of music which fails to put quality of experience first, and quantity second.

[Old Grumpy]

Contrariwise, I rather like the idea of 'vinyl ice-cream'.

I'm also glad to hear that I am not alone in finding the ritual element of taking CDs out of their jewel cases (such an apt name) is as much part of the pleasure as taking LPs out of their paper sleeves used to be. This is something which soulless streaming misses. It is a commoditization of music which fails to put quality of experience first, and quantity second.