Digital Video Recorders

[richardfinegold]

We had a power surge here a few nights ago. I have 3 systems in my home, one for each level. Various components in each were effected, but fortunately with a lot of rebooting I was able to get everything running again with one exception. In the basement we use a DVR from a company called Channel Master (now apparently defunct). This receives the digital over the air (OTA) . It provides a no frills listing of content and can also record-2 channels at once- to a connected HD that must be supplied. The unit now gives a message that the signal is to weak to show TVs but that it will play recorded material (and it does). The tuner for both DVRs is in the attic.
We have an identical unit in the main floor system which is working fine. We had purchased both in 2008 and they have worked flawlessly. We stopped getting cable TV then, changed to using the DVRs for OTA and since we have Dumb TVs we use Apple TV in both video system for various apps.
The DVRs were inexpensive at the time and after 15 years of service have proven to be great value. My wife had formerly used the basement system to record dozens of her home improvement shows and I used the basement system to record American Football. We have exercise equipment in the basement and enjoy watching while we work out. However my wife informed me that months ago she stopped recording the shows when she discovered she could access them via an App on the Apple TV. That means I would be the exclusive user, and during the Fall months only.
I could still watch the games live using the ATV, but I like to record many of them and play back while exercising, and fast forwarding through the bulk of the content.
My AV consultant thinks that the DVR has a small internal amp to magnify the weak digital OTA signal and that was blown during the surge. This seems to explain the problem. I Googled the manual for the device and it doesn’t discuss this issue.
I have looked at current DVRs and unless one were to spend several hundred dollars and pay a monthly subscription fee, the cheaper units seem cheap indeed, with plenty of user complaints.
One solution would be to record to the unit that works in the living room, then take the portable HD to the basement to play back on that unit. I have found used Channel Master units on eBay for almost $200 including shipping, which I believe exceeds the original price.

[smittims]

This may be off-topic, but I have noticed in recent years that disc recorders are almost exctinct in high street outlets. It seems to me that 'they' don't want us to make our own discs , but being old-fashioned I prefer the ownership of a disc to relying on their whim as to what they make available in streaming services.

We began recording digital TV with an LG recorder which had RCA (phono) sockets. It let me record TV but not radio , though it played radio. I got round that by plugging a phono lead into the RCA sockets; I still use it for ausdio recordongs . We then moved on to a Panasonic disc recorder that lets us record DAB radio but won't let me edit the programmes, as one can for TV .

While I'm content with this arrangement for my few remaining years, It remains a mystery to me why 'they ' are content to let us record, say feature films off Tv and make discs of them , but not radio.

[LMcD]

This may be off-topic, but I have noticed in recent years that disc recorders are almost exctinct in high street outlets. It seems to me that 'they' don't want us to make our own discs , but being old-fashioned I prefer the ownership of a disc to relying on their whim as to what they make available in streaming services.

We began recording digital TV with an LG recorder which had RCA (phono) sockets. It let me record TV but not radio , though it played radio. I got round that by plugging a phono lead into the RCA sockets; I still use it for ausdio recordongs . We then moved on to a Panasonic disc recorder that lets us record DAB radio but won't let me edit the programmes, as one can for TV .

While I'm content with this arrangement for my few remaining years, It remains a mystery to me why 'they ' are content to let us record, say feature films off Tv and make discs of them , but not radio.

Although I'm technically semi-literate, I have no trouble recording TV (press 'red') and radio (press 'green') programmes on my Linsar TV. I've yet to use more than 40% of the HD recorder's capacity.

[gradus]

We bought a Sharp 'Digital Terrestrial HD Receiver' in 2005 when we switched TVs, but found the instructions so impenetrable that we have never used it. Seemed like a good idea at the time but quite why we bought it remains a mystery to us.

[Retune]

The last time I tried anything like this, I bought one of those cheap digital TV dongles, like a large USB stick, with a TV aerial connector on one end and the USB connector on the other. I think the company was Hauppauge:

https://www.hauppauge.com/

They have other versions like PCI cards for desktop computers and freestanding boxes.

The dongles come with software that displays the TV picture on your computer and allows you to record it to your hard disk (or a different channel to the one you are watching if you buy a dual tuner version).

[Dave2002]

We bought a Sharp 'Digital Terrestrial HD Receiver' in 2005 when we switched TVs, but found the instructions so impenetrable that we have never used it. Seemed like a good idea at the time but quite why we bought it remains a mystery to us.

So did the TV work without it?

In those days many TVs may not have been capable of picking up many stations either from satellites or terrestrial broadcasting networks without some kind of add on device. Also not all receivers were high definition - but some TVs may have been capable of rendering a good image if fed from an external HD box. Things have changed a lot since then.

[gradus]

So did the TV wvwork without it?

In those days many TVs may not have been capable of picking up many stations either from satellites or terrestrial broadcasting networks without some kind of add on device. Also not all receivers were high definition - but some TVs may have been capable of rendering a good image if fed from an external HD box. Things have changed a lot since then.

The TV is still in active service using Freeview but isn't HD, it's probably due for a change but still gives a good picture although with nothing like the hyper-real intensity that I see on the new TVs in John Lewis.

[richardfinegold]

What surprised me is that there do not seem to be TVs for sale that incorporate DVRs for OTA in the set-in fact I didn’t find any. Out TV in the basement is a 40 inch Sony 1080i and since I don’t use my glasses while exercising I frequently have to squint at the screen to navigate menus. It seems that it should be feasible to incorporate the DVR in a 50 inch or so unit and have it cost only a few hundred dollars more than the price of the used DVRs on eBay

[Retune]

I think one reason they don't bother with built-in DVRs is that so much stuff in now available via online catch up services, which often are included in modern TVs. Apart from news and a bit of sport, I haven't watched much live TV for a long time.

[Dave2002]

What surprised me is that there do not seem to be TVs for sale that incorporate DVRs for OTA in the set-in fact I didn’t find any. Out TV in the basement is a 40 inch Sony 1080i and since I don’t use my glasses while exercising I frequently have to squint at the screen to navigate menus. It seems that it should be feasible to incorporate the DVR in a 50 inch or so unit and have it cost only a few hundred dollars more than the price of the used DVRs on eBay

I was typing up another response to this on a different computer when we had a power cut. So here goes again.

Firstly costs of many components used in TVs and other devices have dropped, and the capabilities have increased very significantly over the years. A few years ago some TVs in the UK were sold with the capability of using a USB memory stick effectively as a DVR equivalent - recording to memory rather than a disc. OK - that wouldn't help if one really wanted to make a disc, possibly for watching later on another devices which was capable of reading it. Now the price of SSD memory has dropped to the point that it should really not add much to the cost of a TV to include SSD storage and the necessary control/software to make recording feasible within the TV.

There are of course different TV systems and standards in different regions - typically the US, Europe and the UK. In some areas there are variants, so Canada may have systems which are similar to the UK - though I'm not absolutely up to date with that.

In times gone by equipment manufacturers would make devices for each market area. However they may not always do that now. What they might do instead is to put various components into devices - such as TVs - which can be software configured to work in each region. As a simple example, the digital tuners for the US will be different from those for the UK - but the devices and software required to actually display the video, and the sound once it has been decoded from whatever input stream is used might be compatible in all regions. So manufacturers may decide to put more functionality into sets to allow them to be configured wherever they might be used. That will be decided on commercial factors - it may be cheaper to put components and functionality into a wide range of similar devices, rather than making devices for each market.

In the UK there have in recent years been a number of TVs which include both satellite and terrestrial broadcast receivers - and very probably some which also have circuits for taking signals straight from streaming services.

Partly prompted by this thread I went to test out two of our most recent TVs, which both seemed to do a software refresh as they haven't been switched on for quite some time. Now many sets come with "apps", which may need periodic refreshing, passwords and general shenanigans - it all can get very complicated.

We are still using a Sharp TV which dates from 2008, which has always had a decent picture, though it doesn't have all the bells and whistles of newer sets. We probably use that one more than the other two which are only a few years old now - one is another Sharp and the other is a Toshiba.

Some newer sets can indeed be a pain to set up - particularly if they go looking for signals before allowing anything to happen. That won't affect too many people, but where we live now there are hardly any good signals - let alone bad ones - so we have to cajole the sets to avoid scanning for channels off air or satellite to persuade them to drop down to look for internet feeds or input from external decoders.

[Dave2002]

I think one reason they don't bother with built-in DVRs is that so much stuff in now available via online catch up services, which often are included in modern TVs. Apart from news and a bit of sport, I haven't watched much live TV for a long time.

Possibly.

Indeed I find it odd when looking at a news item if I can't rewind a minute or two to check something out - though that kind of functionality can be built into TV sets nowadays - even without the access to streaming services.

For a whole bunch of reasons most of our TVs are configured to work with catchup services - and we watch most programmes via internet delivery.

One benefit [or lack of "dis"-benefit] of having functionality in the TVs is that some unwanted functions [mainly adverts] can be removed.
I was horrified yesterday while watching a film on Prime to have it interrupted by an advert I didn't want to see. With streaming services one is always at the mercy of the providers. I had thought that with Prime films would be free of adverts - particularly as Prime is a paid for service.

OK - it's "only video".

Now imagine listening to Beethoven ...... "As the end of the exposition of the 5th symphony draws near .... have you considered having your brakes checked at Campbell's garage. There's a free oil change with every service ..... Now - lets carry on to the recapitulation ..."

Grrrr - Fume!

[Retune]

Now imagine listening to Beethoven ...... "As the end of the exposition of the 5th symphony draws near .... have you considered having your brakes checked at Campbell's garage. There's a free oil change with every service ..... Now - lets carry on to the recapitulation ..."

Grrrr - Fume!

This dystopian world already exists on YouTube, sadly, where that's pretty much what happens on some music channels. I suppose you can make the adverts go away with a paid subscription, and I believe you can pay Amazon extra (as if they're not already getting enough of your money!) to make Prime Video work the ad-free way it used to before they got greedier. One other thing that has worked for me on both is uBlock Origin, available for most mainstream browsers except Safari:

https://ublockorigin.com/

I was rather surprised it worked on Prime Video the last time I tried it. On YT there's a bit of a battle with the uBlock guys, where YT has been regularly updating their advert code to block the blocker, which then triggers a further uBlock update...

This stuff won't work on smart TVs, of course, though you could maybe stream from a browser with a blocker on your computer to a device like a Chromecast plugged into the TV.

[richardfinegold]

I think one reason they don't bother with built-in DVRs is that so much stuff in now available via online catch up services, which often are included in modern TVs. Apart from news and a bit of sport, I haven't watched much live TV for a long time.

You are probably right. I think I mentioned in the OP that wife used to have dozens of hours of programming on the DVR but now doesn’t use it at all because of apps

Dave’s dystopian world indeed exists on YT, but more impressively was predicted by PDQ Bach decades ago

[alywin]

This may be off-topic, but I have noticed in recent years that disc recorders are almost exctinct in high street outlets. It seems to me that 'they' don't want us to make our own discs , but being old-fashioned I prefer the ownership of a disc to relying on their whim as to what they make available in streaming services.

We began recording digital TV with an LG recorder which had RCA (phono) sockets. It let me record TV but not radio , though it played radio. I got round that by plugging a phono lead into the RCA sockets; I still use it for ausdio recordongs . We then moved on to a Panasonic disc recorder that lets us record DAB radio but won't let me edit the programmes, as one can for TV .

While I'm content with this arrangement for my few remaining years, It remains a mystery to me why 'they ' are content to let us record, say feature films off Tv and make discs of them , but not radio.

Me too where preferring discs is concerned - and yes, I agree, it's incredibly difficult to find a disc recorders now. I've had to buy a couple of old ones from British Heart Foundation furniture stores :( Started off with an LG, but realised it doesn't have any sort of flexible recording option, so you can't stretch the recording to fit the entire disc, or alternatively squeeze it to fit it in to whatever space is left. Now have a Panasonic - would have been quite happy to buy a new one, but I gather they force you to record to hard drive and then transfer in real time - YAWN.

[alywin]

The last time I tried anything like this, I bought one of those cheap digital TV dongles, like a large USB stick, with a TV aerial connector on one end and the USB connector on the other. I think the company was Hauppauge:

https://www.hauppauge.com/

They have other versions like PCI cards for desktop computers and freestanding boxes.

The dongles come with software that displays the TV picture on your computer and allows you to record it to your hard disk (or a different channel to the one you are watching if you buy a dual tuner version).

I have one of those, but it refuses to work on anything newer than Windows XP, including Windows 7 with an XP emulator :(