Streaming - technical problems

[Ian Old Bean]

Can anyone offer some advice on how to make streaming more reliable and easier to use? Most of the time I listen to music on CD or vinyl and I have never had a problem. However, recently I was offered a Bluesound Node 2i at a very low price so I decided to give streaming a try. However, it has never really worked properly. The player wants to install an update pretty much every time I use it, which takes the device offline for a full 30 minutes. Then it is often unable to see new recordings that have been added to my USB drive. This requires a delete of all files and a complete index rebuild before the new files appear. If the internet connection drops or goes wonky that affects the listening experience too. Then the sound produced by the Bluesound is poor so I had to buy a digital coax so i could connect it to the DAC in my CD player (this was a vast improvement).
All in all it is very difficult to use and I frequently find myself returning to my CD collection which already contains most of the recordings I want, so is there really any point in bothering with streaming?

[richardfinegold]

Most of the problems that you identified are inherent to Bluesound itself, and not necessarily to all of streaming. I gave up on Bluesound and now use a Cambridge Audio streamer. It rarely requires an update. The DAC is better although I choose to use an external DAC. And it adds new files as soon as you have added them to your storage.
You also haven’t mentioned the ability to use a streaming service such as Qobuz and Internet Radio

[gradus]

I stream audio via PC or mobile phone and listen via Chromecasts. It is reliable although not exactly at the technological cutting edge but I do have problems streaming live concerts in video eg Berlin Phil.
I had assumed that switching from ADSL to Fibre would solve this but it remains presumably because of some fault in the PC that is beyond my capacity to remedy.

[Ian Old Bean]

Most of the problems that you identified are inherent to Bluesound itself, and not necessarily to all of streaming. I gave up on Bluesound and now use a Cambridge Audio streamer. It rarely requires an update. The DAC is better although I choose to use an external DAC. And it adds new files as soon as you have added them to your storage.
You also haven’t mentioned the ability to use a streaming service such as Qobuz and Internet Radio

Thank you for the advice. A friend of mine has a Cambridge Audio CXN V2 and he is very pleased with it. Very few technical problems and the sound is far better than my Bluesound Node 2i.
We have a family Spotify account that I use as a "try before you buy" option when I am thinking about buying a CD. I would not use it for extended listening, and I certainly would not be willing to take out a more expensive subscription such as Qobuz.
With regard to radio, I use a tuner to listen to radio 3 on FM and this sounds really good.
So, apart from sampling new CDs before I decide whether to buy a copy, I mainly use the Bluesound for playing downloaded files when example there is no CD available.

[Roger Webb]

Thank you for the advice. A friend of mine has a Cambridge Audio CXN V2 and he is very pleased with it. Very few technical problems and the sound is far better than my Bluesound Node 2i.
We have a family Spotify account that I use as a "try before you buy" option when I am thinking about buying a CD. I would not use it for extended listening, and I certainly would not be willing to take out a more expensive subscription such as Qobuz.
With regard to radio, I use a tuner to listen to radio 3 on FM and this sounds really good.
So, apart from sampling new CDs before I decide whether to buy a copy, I mainly use the Bluesound for playing downloaded files when example there is no CD available.

I'm fairly new to streaming too...I've been doing it for a couple of years, and had a lot of teething troubles too. I bought a Marantz NA 6006 only to find the internet radio bit used 'Tunein' via the HEOS app. and they had just stopped relaying foreign radio stations...one of the reasons I had bought it! Then BBC stopped its streams via TuneIn, then they came back at a greatly reduced bitrate.
I'm glad to say they are now available at 320k HLS, and sound superb. Ultimately, though, I changed my preamp to the Quad Vena 2 Play which has a streamer built in, the main reason being that the Play-fi app. has Qobuz, which HEOS doesn't support. You mentioned Qobuz above. I gave up Spotify for Qobuz on sound quality grounds, and because Spotify still doesn't give 'gapless' playback ( they claim it does!), this is important if you listen to anything continuous that has inserted track numbers, opera for example. Play-fi also has all the foreign radio stations.

I also have a dedicated Android tablet permanently connected via ethernet to the USB input on the Quad, and thence to the internal DAC of the Quad. This could be all you need, as it can do all a streamer does, and I use it quite a lot for various things not available on Play-fi.....to take advantage of high quality streams, FLAC files for example, you'll need to bypass the audio stack in the tablet, otherwise everything will be downsampled to 48k.

I used to listen via FM, but the dynamic range limitations meant that many live broadcasts were marred, Proms for example....the BBC streams at 320k though are superb - just a shame so much of the content is dummed-down!

[Ian Old Bean]

I'm fairly new to streaming too...I've been doing it for a couple of years, and had a lot of teething troubles too. I bought a Marantz NA 6006 only to find the internet radio bit used 'Tunein' via the HEOS app. and they had just stopped relaying foreign radio stations...one of the reasons I had bought it! Then BBC stopped its streams via TuneIn, then they came back at a greatly reduced bitrate.
I'm glad to say they are now available at 320k HLS, and sound superb. Ultimately, though, I changed my preamp to the Quad Vena 2 Play which has a streamer built in, the main reason being that the Play-fi app. has Qobuz, which HEOS doesn't support. You mentioned Qobuz above. I gave up Spotify for Qobuz on sound quality grounds, and because Spotify still doesn't give 'gapless' playback ( they claim it does!), this is important if you listen to anything continuous that has inserted track numbers, opera for example. Play-fi also has all the foreign radio stations.

I also have a dedicated Android tablet permanently connected via ethernet to the USB input on the Quad, and thence to the internal DAC of the Quad. This could be all you need, as it can do all a streamer does, and I use it quite a lot for various things not available on Play-fi.....to take advantage of high quality streams, FLAC files for example, you'll need to bypass the audio stack in the tablet, otherwise everything will be downsampled to 48k.

I used to listen via FM, but the dynamic range limitations meant that many live broadcasts were marred, Proms for example....the BBC streams at 320k though are superb - just a shame so much of the content is dummed-down!

Yes I agree that the sound quality on Spotify is not very good but I would never use it for extended listening. It is really just to give me an idea of what the recording is like when I am trying to decide whether to buy the CD or not. Most of my listening is CD or vinyl, and I have never seen the point of moving to streaming.
Your comment illustrates that setting up a good listening experience using streaming can be very technical and I have never been able to overcome these challenges. Popping a CD into the CD player and pressing play is technical enough for me.

[Roger Webb]

Yes I agree that the sound quality on Spotify is not very good but I would never use it for extended listening. It is really just to give me an idea of what the recording is like when I am trying to decide whether to buy the CD or not. Most of my listening is CD or vinyl, and I have never seen the point of moving to streaming.
Your comment illustrates that setting up a good listening experience using streaming can be very technical and I have never been able to overcome these challenges. Popping a CD into the CD player and pressing play is technical enough for me.

As a retired owner of a classical specialist CD shop, I'm glad you're keeping some of my colleagues in business!

I have a very large CD and vinyl collection and still play both regularly.....but for new releases and those 'interesting' performances, which you may only want to play once, it's Qobuz - BTW they have
a very good 'magazine' page with selected releases and interviews and articles on music and hi-fi.

[richardfinegold]

I prefer CDs, and I’m somewhat agnostic about playing them directly from my Oppo 105 into my Bryston DAC, or playing them from my Melco server with the CA. My wife and I listen to Radio Venice as our background music, and that wouldn’t be possible with an analog tuner. We also listen to our local Classical station, which streams at 320 bps and sounds different than the analog tuner, much crisper and detailed than the fuzzy analog signal.
I stopped Qobuz and changed to Apple Music because my wife really wanted to use Apple and I didn’t want to pay for two services. I have to use AirPlay or Chromecast when doing so but this is only a minor inconvenience. AirPlay still is a slight improvement over Spotify which I had done a free trial with some years ago. Chromecast sounds really good, but I have to use an Android device for it, and Apple doesn’t make all of their tracks available for Chromecast.
I primarily use Apple to sample CDs before I buy, and also for non classical music. I am finding it more to listen to recordings that I like but not enough to add to shelves groaning with multiple versions (currently, Chailly Mahler cycle). Most listeners now use a streaming service in place of discs, so we are out of step.
I think the OP would be well served by a PC attached to his DAC

[Roger Webb]

......... Chromecast sounds really good, but I have to use an Android device...

Surely Apple through Chromecast is not gapless - this a deal-breaker for me.

The severest test for gapless I've found so far is Beethoven 32 Variations in C minor WoO 80 played live by Kissin on DG. Some of the tracks are only 12 seconds long. Neither Tidal or Spotify plays this gapless on either HEOS or Play-fi, or on either of my Android Tabs. But it plays perfectly from Qobuz at FLAC 16/44.1 on Play-fi from an Android Lenovo tab. to the Quad Vena 2 Play.

[richardfinegold]

Surely Apple through Chromecast is not gapless - this a deal-breaker for me.

The severest test for gapless I've found so far is Beethoven 32 Variations in C minor WoO 80 played live by Kissin on DG. Some of the tracks are only 12 seconds long. Neither Tidal or Spotify plays this gapless on either HEOS or Play-fi, or on either of my Android Tabs. But it plays perfectly from Qobuz at FLAC 16/44.1 on Play-fi from an Android Lenovo tab. to the Quad Vena 2 Play.

It is gapless, though perhaps not consistently. I also wind occasionally with non gapless play with AirPlay, and remember being an issue with Qobuz as well. In general, it’s hard to beat the convenience of CD

[Roger Webb]

It is gapless, though perhaps not consistently. I also wind occasionally with non gapless play with AirPlay, and remember being an issue with Qobuz as well. In general, it’s hard to beat the convenience of CD

Qobuz is only gapless if you let it be! If you put it through an app. that hasn't gapless capability, Chromecast is one, then it won't be consistently gapless. With Spotify it still is not consistently gapless. Qobuz has an additional problem - one they are working on - namely 'connect'. Spotify has the best one, Tidal doesn't....although they claim they have! You still have to use the operating app. of the hardware....or Roon as long as your player is Roon ready, mine aren't.

You're right About CD, for a technology 40 odd years old, they got it right first time - although improvements came along now and then. I was in on CD retailing from just about the word go, and retired in 2002. I have a large collection (vinyl too) and enjoy both.