Defunct audio formats

[Cockney Sparrow]

........To go the other way you'd need to use your MD player's headphone or line-out socket. Mostly these outputs were analogue only, so the DRM shouldn't come into play, though some high-end players (typically HiFi components) did have digital outputs that might trip copy protection if you use them, depending on whether the system you plug it into respects Sony's old 'SCMS' scheme.

Later they tried to compete with mp3 players with the 'NetMD' system. If you have a NetMD player, there are hacks for digitally transferring tracks to your computer (I believe these have been incorporated into apps like Web MiniDisc Pro).

So there are two strands here, one for some obscure system for surround sound on vinyl. (I'm amazed). As to the mini disc discussion:

I followed some of the links from the web page that FF found and quoted. Beware if its this mobile recorder/player model: Sony MZ-RH1 / MZ-M200
(Which, I think I still own – suppose I’ll have to look for it now….)
The Lithium battery pack is no longer made by Sony and a battery of that age is unlikely to hold a charge. There is a link to a page where you can get the file to have a new frame 3D printed to construct the pack for the (apparently) standard battery component (which is available) on which it was based. Making contact strips and soldering wires as well. And that will fit in as a replacement battery.
https://www.minidisc.wiki/equipment/...rtable/mz-rh1.
I might be up for that ….. eventually. But not now.

Does FF have any other input for an analogue audio signal on her computer. I still suggest, if its a laptop, seeking a view from someone. But due credit for having a go.

[french frank]

Does FF have any other input for an analogue audio signal on her computer. I still suggest, if its a laptop, seeking a view from someone. But due credit for having a go. [/FONT]

How would she know?

The MacBook is early 2015 and has two "ordinary" USB ports (meaning they look like the most common ones to me, but I wouldn't know a USB 2.0 from a USB-B). There's also one for headphones and another which I think is a thunderbolt; and a long (about 25mm) narrow slot, purpose unknown. I might trek down to Paul Roberts ("There's nowhere like it for hifi") from whom I bought the hifi.

The hifi has a direct USB port (USB-A,I think, the squareish one with two of the corners cut off), headphones connection and something else called P-MD, similar to the phones socket.

[Andrew Slater]

At one point Sony were bundling connection gadgets with ordinary MD players that were basically mini USB audio devices, but they were intended to get the music from the computer to the MD player rather than the other way around. One had an analogue output, and the other an optical digital output which worked with MD players that had an optical digital input:

http://www.dansdata.com/xitel.htm

To go the other way you'd need to use your MD player's headphone or line-out socket. Mostly these outputs were analogue only, so the DRM shouldn't come into play, though some high-end players (typically HiFi components) did have digital outputs that might trip copy protection if you use them, depending on whether the system you plug it into respects Sony's old 'SCMS' scheme.

Later they tried to compete with mp3 players with the 'NetMD' system. If you have a NetMD player, there are hacks for digitally transferring tracks to your computer (I believe these have been incorporated into apps like Web MiniDisc Pro).

Thanks for the info - I'll check to see if it has the 'NetMD' system - laboriously copying to computer in real time is something I want to avoid if at all possible!

That Sony copy protection was a real pain - but with some of the later kit it was possible to get round some of the problems. From what I remember, the HiMD models were the most versatile in terms of being able to get round some of the constraints.

Do you know what is on the MDs?

I know what's on some of them via a set of index cards. The problem is that some of the labels have fallen off the MD cases! My idea was to transfer to PC so that I could skip through the contents using VLC or similar rather than using the MD recorder's fast forward function, which isn't very fast - some of the discs have very long tracks. The discs with a lot of short tracks aren't much of a problem, as skipping through the tracks on the recorder is quite quick, using a knob. (I have 3 other working MD recorders plus one which needs a new cog in the eject mechanism, all without USB connectors. It's just this other one that I was hoping would solve the problem.)

Playing around with this kind of stuff can be a can of worms, and waste a lot of time, but it might be worth trying the recorder - you might actually like the sound quality. Not worth spending more than half a day on this, unless you are feeling really dedicated.

I'm sure the sound quality will be fine. (I'm not too fussy these days, anyway!) The key is to try to extract the data in the least painful way.

[Andrew Slater]

I'm speechless! (Which goes to show what a technological ignoramus I am !) Back to recording MDs on to my computer: I found something that I (probably mis)identified as a sort of adaptor. I think it was a gadget I bought to record from the hifi MD player on to its cassette deck.

Now, by connecting various things up, phono jack (hi fi) to gadget (via two red and white stereo input jacks) and USB A (gadget) to USB B (MacBook), I managed to get the volume (from R3 playing on the hifi) registering on the computer - by changing Internal Speakers to USB Audio Codec ('select a device for sound input') so that the input level is registering but there's no sound (anywhere) and the Sound window says 'The selected device has no input controls'. So what I thought was an adaptor is presumably something else.

No one has a clue what I'm talking about, do they? Including me Ah, well...

If the level is registering on your computer (via a bargraph or similar?) then the gadget is doing its job. I found this advice which might or might not be helpful. The app which is displaying the bargraph or similar should have some output controls - does it simply need the output volume to be increased or perhaps a mute button to be cancelled? (Silly question, but are any headphones or other device plugged into the audio output jack socket? If so, that would probably turn off the internal speakers.)

[french frank]

If the level is registering on your computer (via a bargraph or similar?) then the gadget is doing its job. I found this advice which might or might not be helpful. The app which is displaying the bargraph or similar should have some output controls - does it simply need the output volume to be increased or perhaps a mute button to be cancelled? (Silly question, but are any headphones or other device plugged into the audio output jack socket? If so, that would probably turn off the internal speakers.)

I suspect something silly is the answer! The connection atm means nothing is heard on either the hifi or the computer. Looking at the hifi instructions it should be possible to get the hifi audio to play through the computer but there's something about downloading a drive: I can investigate further but suspect that any such drive may no longer be available, or that upgrades to the Mac OS would scupper that plan (the instructions only mention Windows).

Your link does look useful.

[richardfinegold]

I'm speechless! (Which goes to show what a technological ignoramus I am !) Back to recording MDs on to my computer: I found something that I (probably mis)identified as a sort of adaptor. I think it was a gadget I bought to record from the hifi MD player on to its cassette deck.

Now, by connecting various things up, phono jack (hi fi) to gadget (via two red and white stereo input jacks) and USB A (gadget) to USB B (MacBook), I managed to get the volume (from R3 playing on the hifi) registering on the computer - by changing Internal Speakers to USB Audio Codec ('select a device for sound input') so that the input level is registering but there's no sound (anywhere) and the Sound window says 'The selected device has no input controls'. So what I thought was an adaptor is presumably something else.

No one has a clue what I'm talking about, do they? Including me Ah, well...

It sounds like quite rabbit hole you went down there

[Dave2002]

How would she know?

The MacBook is early 2015 and has two "ordinary" USB ports (meaning they look like the most common ones to me, but I wouldn't know a USB 2.0 from a USB-B). There's also one for headphones and another which I think is a thunderbolt; and a long (about 25mm) narrow slot, purpose unknown. I might trek down to Paul Roberts ("There's nowhere like it for hifi") from whom I bought the hifi.

The hifi has a direct USB port (USB-A,I think, the squareish one with two of the corners cut off), headphones connection and something else called P-MD, similar to the phones socket.

Many of the earlier Macbooks had a headphone output which also doubled up as a TosLink optical input/output - see https://appleinsider.com/articles/16...headphone-jack which states that around 2015 this feature was dropped from some models. Sadly that doesn't necessarily help though, as even though some of the MD players do have optical outs, because that is a digital output it is quite likely that the Sony DRM protection will kick in and prevent you from transferring the data out. I won't say it's impossible, but it can be a major effort to trick the software into allowing this.

The sound quality via the headphone socket on the MD should be quite good anyway, so then you'd need some form of audio input for your laptop. Some of the Apple desktop machines had separate audio in and out sockets, which made things easy, but I can't remember whether any of the laptops also had that useful feature.

That would probably only get "real time" copying, but if the material is worth saving could be a project to do over time.

The comments about a bar graph "doing something" suggest that you are getting data into the computer, but no audio output. That might just be a simple thing to fix in System Settings -> Sound.

[smittims]

Thinking about how quickly some things become obsolete I remembered an advert from an old copy of the RadioTimes over 40 years ago. A hand was pictured, brandishing a VHS tape on the spine of which was handwritten 'Royal Wedding 1981'. The caption was 'give your grandchildren a present beyond price'.

[french frank]

It sounds like quite rabbit hole you went down there

I suspect the problem is that the stereo has never heard of anything at all called 'Mac OS'. It specifies: 'One of the following operating systems' as meeting the correct conditions: 'IBM PC/AT operating system compatible'. And then nothing post WIN 98/Win NT.

The stereo instructions show all that is needed to connect the stereo to a computer is a direct connection between the USB-B port on the stereo to the USB-A port on the computer. But that does absolutely nothing at all: the audio is still coming from the stereo and the computer doesn't recognise the device at all. With the intermediary of the undentifiable 'gadget' the computer is recognising something, the 'audio' from the stereo is inaudible, but a bargraph is registering the sound level on the computer. Just incompatible software then?

[french frank]

The comments about a bar graph "doing something" suggest that you are getting data into the computer, but no audio output. That might just be a simple thing to fix in System Settings -> Sound.

That seems to be where the only options are internal microphone or internal speakers. On neither setting is the output device recognised.

[Andrew Slater]

I suspect the problem is that the stereo has never heard of anything at all called 'Mac OS'. It specifies: 'One of the following operating systems' as meeting the correct conditions: 'IBM PC/AT operating system compatible'. And then nothing post WIN 98/Win NT.

The stereo instructions show all that is needed to connect the stereo to a computer is a direct connection between the USB-B port on the stereo to the USB-A port on the computer. But that does absolutely nothing at all: the audio is still coming from the stereo and the computer doesn't recognise the device at all. With the intermediary of the undentifiable 'gadget' the computer is recognising something, the 'audio' from the stereo is inaudible, but a bargraph is registering the sound level on the computer. Just incompatible software then?

As Dave2002 says, if you are seeing a moving bargraph then *all* that is needed is to connect the 'USB Audio Codec' input to the 'internal speakers' output. Try to look for an app called 'mixer', which would typically be the way you would do this.

Have you any evidence that the internal speakers are working at all? Do you get any sound when playing a sound source on the browser, such as Youtube?

Which app is presenting you with the bargraph?

Have you tried the F10-F12 keys? F10 should mute / unmute, F11 decreases volume, F12 increases volume.

Have you tried this? (But select the USB audio codec as input, internal speakers as output.)

Apologies if I'm teaching my grandmother to suck eggs.

[french frank]

I'll come back to you on that, Andrew. Yes, the audio works for YouTube and other video clips, and the sound level bargraph increases when I turn up the 'volume' on the stereo. Off to try again. Always so much to learn ...

[richardfinegold]

I suspect the problem is that the stereo has never heard of anything at all called 'Mac OS'. It specifies: 'One of the following operating systems' as meeting the correct conditions: 'IBM PC/AT operating system compatible'. And then nothing post WIN 98/Win NT.

The stereo instructions show all that is needed to connect the stereo to a computer is a direct connection between the USB-B port on the stereo to the USB-A port on the computer. But that does absolutely nothing at all: the audio is still coming from the stereo and the computer doesn't recognise the device at all. With the intermediary of the undentifiable 'gadget' the computer is recognising something, the 'audio' from the stereo is inaudible, but a bargraph is registering the sound level on the computer. Just incompatible software then?

You have a usb port on the “stereo”? Do you mean on your DAC? Or streamer? Or do you have an integrated DAC/preamp? If you specify what your components are I might be of some assistance. Some components have usb ports that are not intended for music ,but for IT updates. Other older components have usb ports that are meant only for thumb drives and won’t connect to a PC. Some of the latter will only play mp3 files.

[Dave2002]

I'll come back to you on that, Andrew. Yes, the audio works for YouTube and other video clips, and the sound level bargraph increases when I turn up the 'volume' on the stereo. Off to try again. Always so much to learn ...

I have to say that I don't much like the recent changes/updates to System Settings in MacOS. Here I'm "still" using Ventura.


Is this the kind of thing you see? [Sorry it's so big ... it's slightly smaller now ....]

Here you can see I also have [sometimes] a webcam connected. If you have your device connected to the computer, its name should appear in the list under Sound-> Input - if it's possible to use it as an input. It is possible it'll only appear under Output - try checking that.

[french frank]

You have a usb port on the “stereo”? Do you mean on your DAC? Or streamer? Or do you have an integrated DAC/preamp? If you specify what your components are I might be of some assistance. Some components have usb ports that are not intended for music ,but for IT updates. Other older components have usb ports that are meant only for thumb drives and won’t connect to a PC. Some of the latter will only play mp3 files.

Sorry, Richard, I'd need to go to the library and get out an appropriate book to understand that. The stereo or hifi (this one) is what used to be called a 'music centre'. It has a tuner aka a radio, a cassette deck, an MD player and a CD player, with recording facility to transfer from one of the various media to another. And yes, the stereo has phono, P-MD (what the dickens is that?) and USB-B ports (see image). johnb, late of these boards, also set me up with pre-amp and cables to connect a turntable. All of those use the stereo's speakers. So what I need is a set-up that uses the computer's 'system audio' rather than the stereo speakers; then I can use Audio Hijack to record the minidiscs. I think.