All in one players

[Dave2002]

Because the set up here means that this



is all I need to get the most out of downloads, which have now totally replaced CD purchasing for me.

.

PS I also agree with the points about noise - the drive of the MBP is inaudible when playing music, even when the computer is a couple of feet from my ear beside the sofa.

We have two Mac laptops - both use SSD for storage. One is a MacBook AIr, the other an MBP. Normally they are silent - except for the clicking of the keys if used.

However, sometimes the fans do come on rather noisily. This can happen if there are multiple applications and/or windows open - check with Activity Monitor, and also if main memory becomes low forcing swapping.

Probably the worst offender which seems to come up quite frequently is if ever anything causes Flash to be used - and this does include the BBC iPlayer. It's very noticeable, and I have several times noticed that mrs d has accessed a site which causes this hiccup simply by the noise from at least 6 feet away. If it happens on my MBP I also notice the extra heat on the top of my legs! Flash isn't the only culprit, but it seems to be the main one. Sometimes the only solution is to completely reboot the machine to get it to turn off.

This noise problem shouldn't affect anyone who only uses their computer for audio, but I'm sure we're not the only ones who sometimes do other things as well. Also, other people in the same room may hit this problem with their computer, causing a distraction, and chances are that they won't realise or know what's causing it or what to do about it.

[richardfinegold]

Thanks Steve. I didn't know Meridian sold things at this price!!

Sorry for so many questions, but will it be a significant improvement on just connecting my active speakers through the headphone socket my MacBook Pro, as I do now?

Note that many Active Speaker manufacturers now add a DAC right to the speakers (Meridian, Linn, and Audioengine, which are the most sanely priced). I am presuming that your speakers are older do not have a built in DAC but you may want to verify this. How do you control the volume of your current digital inputs?

[richardfinegold]

I'm not sure that approach will work. I think some of the outputs from the Macs are fixed level, so need an external volume control - though perhaps it does depend on the software used to play back.

I don't know how volume controls on DACs work - probably depends. The simplest of course is a digital control, but that would tinker with the signal. If done in floating point it would make a very slight difference to the signal, and if done using integer arithmetic then low order bits would be lost.

Most people wouldn't notice most of the time, but if one has taken steps to avoid having any tinkering with the signal, then these extra digital processes could be considered unwelcome.

DAC volume controls could simply be analogue volume controls placed somewhere in the path to the power amp. These should not have any effect on the digital signal.

I have a (now) older Beresford Caiman which has a volume control and a headphone socket and 4 inputs - 2 x coaxial digital, 1 x optical and 1 x USB. It's useful for listening in the middle of the night, and during the day it works rather well with amplifiers and speakers. The newer offerings are, I hear, somewhat better - but I've not considered upgrading yet. I tried a DAC Magic, but as it didn't sound any better than my Marantz CD player I returned it. The Beresford unit does sound good, though I find it hard to say that it's always better than my CD player. Some CD player DACs are really very good - at least for most people. The main reason for my choice of that DAC at the time was that it had more inputs and a headphone socket and a volume control, so it can be used as a kind of pre-amp.

As I've mentioned, the newer models are reported to be better - and I note that there are now two slight variants of the Bushmaster - one which has an asynchronous input. I'm guessing that's the one to go for, if driven by a suitable connection. See http://www.beresford.me/PP/cartlist.html

Other DACs are possible. One user reported significant improvements by spending a lot more money - for a Schiit DAC and pre-amp - see http://schiit.com/products/fulla - imported from the USA. Those units cost bring the cost of the DAC business up to around £2k, compared with around £150-£400 for a cheaper model.

Finally, a DAC is simply a way of converting a digital data stream to an analogue audio signal. You'd still need something to feed it with (a computer?) and something to feed it out to - pre-amp or power amp. That might be where some of the one box solutions do give a slight convenience advantage for some people, though at a cost. Despite that, I would definitely agree with jlw that better results can be obtained with separate units.

For cheapness I've heard that the Dragonfly DACs are good - and now can be had for around £130 - http://www.richersounds.com/product/...-dragonfly-1.2 These are perhaps best suited for headphone listening.

However, I have no idea how flexible those Dragonfly units are - number of inputs, outputs, volume control etc. Probably not flexible enough for some applications.

I use the Dragonfly (first generation) with my MacBook and Headphones when I travel, although lately I've been defering to my phone and bluetooth headphones. The Dragon fly requires a minijack--a single ended cable out of the DAC that then splits into an analog L and R pair to be hooked up to a preamp.
When I bought the Dragonfly (discounted at the time to make room for the incoming v.2) the store threw in such a cable. There are much more expensive and higher end versions than the humble freebie that I possess. I experimented hooking it up to my two channel system and it sounded very good, not as good as my regular computer hookup (MacAir thunderbolt to firewire adapter feeding a firewire DAC), but certainly acceptable. There is no volume control on the dragonfly but of course I used the preamp volume control.
The DACs that I have seen with a Volume Control are refered to as "DAC-Preamps" and I believe keep the volume adjustments in the digital domain. I haven't seen one for under $500, but it probably won't be long before that occurs.

[Stunsworth]

I'm not sure that approach will work. I think some of the outputs from the Macs are fixed level, so need an external volume control - though perhaps it does depend on the software used to play back.

I don't know how volume controls on DACs work - probably depends. The simplest of course is a digital control, but that would tinker with the signal. If done in floating point it would make a very slight difference to the signal, and if done using integer arithmetic then low order bits would be lost.

You're probably correct about the volume control. The DAC I have - Audiolab M-Dac - has a volume control so it's not something I have to worry about.

The volume control on the M-Dac is indeed digital, though it uses a high bit rate, so artefacts should be negligible (I certainly can't hear any as I change volume).

[Stunsworth]

Sorry for so many questions, but will it be a significant improvement on just connecting my active speakers through the headphone socket my MacBook Pro, as I do now?

No problem with the questions.

It's difficult to say what difference an external DAC would make, we all have different ears, hifi and listening rooms. If you do decide to try one it might be best if you take one on a 'sale or return' basis, so if you don't think it's worthwhile you can return it. I would have thought Amazon would offer that, though it's probably best to make sure before purchasing.

[jayne lee wilson]

I've heard many Dacs, CD players and other digi-sources, and I have to say the 2009 Cambridge DacMagic was among the best. I lived with it for 4 years. The better the system, the better it sounds.
But they've revised the range now, you get the tiny USB-only XS for £100 (with volume control), the 100 for about £180 (without vol) and the DacMagic Plus (with vol) for retail of around £350, but I see Richer Sounds have it for £250 now. Martin Colloms in HiFiCritic, a vastly experienced reviewer who takes no nonsense, said you'd have to spend silly money to better it.. having heard the original, I'd say it's one of the greats, for value if nothing else...

Dacs often have volume controls aboard, usually digital ones. They shouldn't affect quality, BUT - the preamp section of a Dac can often sound like a passive design and may give too soft a sound (better than any internal computer "sound card" though!) - try before buy, etc...shouldn't be here, must dash, back at 0400 if I'm lucky...

[Dave2002]

Thanks Steve. I didn't know Meridian sold things at this price!!

Sorry for so many questions, but will it be a significant improvement on just connecting my active speakers through the headphone socket my MacBook Pro, as I do now?

Beef Oven

Sometimes I listen via the headphone output, and it's sometimes OK for casual listening, particularly if the computer is not doing much else. However there can definitely be interference with the output, depending on the state of the computer, and using an external DAC will very likely reduce that, and the improvement in sound quality will be significant.

Maybe you need to try one or two DACs, perhaps get them on a trial basis. Forming a view on this can be hard, but you should aim for a sound comparable to or "better" than a fairly high quality CD or SACD player. Only you can judege whether you can hear any differences, and also whether such differences - if you can hear them - represent an improvement for you.

I find that sometimes I can't hear too much of a difference, sometimes I can hear differences, and sometimes I can hear differences between two different DACs but actually like both of them, perhaps for different reasons.

Although I have a Beresford DAC I would not necessarily recommend them above all others, but I will mention that I think you are not too far from his establishment, and I believe him to be very helpful re trying out and comparing different kit.

[hedgehog]

I have an HRTmicrostreamer asynchronous DAC.

I got it because reviews said it would also work on an iphone and ipad as it doesn't draw too much current (and was the only one that did this, though this may now have changed) and soundwise it was rated a fairly close second to the Meridian & firefly. For an ipad you use the lightning USB connector for a camera. It works and works at 24 bit 96 KHz too. I use it mainly when travelling, at home I have a very good interface to which I can connect my laptop if needs be. Re headphones, I have a relatively low impedance pair - 70 ohms, for use with this and they work fine. Like the meridian it has a separate output for an amplifier/ active speakers.

Edit: high impedance headphones of 300 ohms will work, but you then need the max volume setting - it suffices .....

[Dave2002]

Richer sounds have the HRT microstreamer now for £149 - http://www.richersounds.com/product/...-microstreamer

See also http://www.whathifi.com/hrt/microstreamer/review

[Beef Oven!]

No problem with the questions.

It's difficult to say what difference an external DAC would make, we all have different ears, hifi and listening rooms. If you do decide to try one it might be best if you take one on a 'sale or return' basis, so if you don't think it's worthwhile you can return it. I would have thought Amazon would offer that, though it's probably best to make sure before purchasing.

Thanks Steve, I think I will go down the trial-route on this one. I'm sure I'll be able to get my hands on two or three to test. Once again, thanks for taking the time - it's been a great help.

[Beef Oven!]

Beef Oven

Sometimes I listen via the headphone output, and it's sometimes OK for casual listening, particularly if the computer is not doing much else. However there can definitely be interference with the output, depending on the state of the computer, and using an external DAC will very likely reduce that, and the improvement in sound quality will be significant.

Maybe you need to try one or two DACs, perhaps get them on a trial basis. Forming a view on this can be hard, but you should aim for a sound comparable to or "better" than a fairly high quality CD or SACD player. Only you can judege whether you can hear any differences, and also whether such differences - if you can hear them - represent an improvement for you.

I find that sometimes I can't hear too much of a difference, sometimes I can hear differences, and sometimes I can hear differences between two different DACs but actually like both of them, perhaps for different reasons.

Although I have a Beresford DAC I would not necessarily recommend them above all others, but I will mention that I think you are not too far from his establishment, and I believe him to be very helpful re trying out and comparing different kit.

Dave2002, thanks for taking the time to post this!

I will go down the trial-route on his, as per your and Steve's steer.