All in one players

[richardfinegold]

Who are the Industry Propagandists? I think we should be told...

I still play & love CDs too of course, but if ever Amazon and iTunes start selling lossless/hi-res routinely on pop & rock albums, things could change very quickly for the great & venerable CD... but I'd guess that smaller specialist Classical labels would at least offer burn-to-order CDs even if margins got tighter...

Not to mention 24-bit computeraudio.. it can get really addictive... but it won't be the reason CD production will reduce.

i am in agreement with Alpie about downloads which I hate. Today was my birthday and I did a couple of Pristines again, Horensteins Mahler 5 and Furtwangler's
Beethoven 9/1954/Lucerne. Not wanting to wait the few weeks for the cross the pond trip for the cds I did the downloads and spent an hour of my birthday figuring out where the heck on the MacBook they ended up and how to import them into itunes. I finally succeeded but in spite of myself; i really don't know how
what I finally did to make it work and now I'm so p***** off that I can't enjoy the fruits of my labor.
I use my Mac and DAC primarily for CDs that I burn into itunes in an effort to prune my collection. I can't stand faffing around with downloads except for itunes or Amazon mp3, which work flawlessly (almost) but are sonically compromised.
Alpie, from what I've read, downloads might also go the way of the dodo if CD Quality streaming (i.e. a service like Qobuz, not available in the States but I believe available in the U.K.) becomes wideespread. I personally would pony up significant cash per month for that, if it was reliable and truly had a good selection. What you really are asking for is a way to transfer bits from a computer (that got there from burning a CD, doing Satan's downloads, or a streaming service) into your audio system. The newer cD players accept digital inputs so you can use the DAC stage of the CD player. I would get one of those, spin your CDs with it, use it for downloads if you must, and decide if you want to spring for Quobuz and bypass the downloads completely.

[richardfinegold]

The more I think about EA's question the more complicated it seems to answer.

Firstly, are you thinking about getting an All in One player because you are intending to change your audio system anyway?

Does your existing audio system have a DAC?

What is your budget?

There are a number of options for playing downloaded files (and for playing files off-air from broadcasts):

1) Remote streaming from a computer or a NAS in another room.
There are various methods including AirPort Express, Sonus, etc, etc. WiFi works fine as long as there is a strong signal at the receiver (very important). I can stream 24/96 Flac over WiFi with no problem at all.

(Also many DVD/BluRay players have the ability to stream from DNLA servers running on a computer, e.g. Windows Media Centre, J River, etc). However this approach, though useful, is far from ideal.)

2) Directly connecting the digital output or USB to a DAC in your audio system.
As others have shown, many are very happy with this solution but I dislike having a laptop or PC in the same room partly because they are rarely if ever silent.

3) Directly connecting the analogue audio out from a computer to your audio system.
Very much a last resort unless you buy a high quality soundcard for the computer.

4) Adding a dedicated box which incorporates a HDD to your audio system
There are quite a few such devices and they range from cheap(ish) and dirty (did someone mention Brennan?) to devices costing many, many thousands (e.g. Meridian)

One aspect that is overlooked is the user interface. How easy is it to select and play the music you are searching for? If you have only a few downloads or only a few CDs ripped to a HDD this isn't that important but as your collection grows this aspect is absolutely critical. If connecting directly with a computer there is software such as J River, otherwise whatever method is chosen it should, ideally, be able to be controlled by a fully featured tablet app.

To give you an idea of what is possible I have uploaded a few screen captures from the iPad (using the iPeng app) I use to control my Squeezebox Touch (which streams from a HP Microserver, used as a glorified NAS). This, for me, is just about ideal.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/o0zfzrurpw656gm/AABlpTrG1YaBQzoVRvax0wqja?dl=0

(Of course the ease of use depends on how you tag the files.)

I use a MacAir with my DAC; it is pretty quiet, as is the SSD Hard Drive that I use for storage. Many Windows computers are now SSD and I think this reduces Computer noise to virtually nil.

[richardfinegold]

Question for the more successful downloaders here: What do you use for a media player? I use XLD and per my previous post importing it into itunes is a b****.
I used to use Decibel which worked much better but they couldn't stop billing me repeatedly even when I paid for it twice. How about JRiver for Mac? Any one used it? If so ,do the downloads just magically appear in the JRiver File, or does one need an advanced IT degree to get them there and replay them?

Nothing beats plug and play. May God Protect and Cherish the humble Compact Disc.

[jayne lee wilson]

I'd agree with rfg about noise; on most recent MacBooks even HDD is practically silent - you have to put your ear right up to the machine to hear anything at all. SSD is even better if you can afford it. Fans only tend to activate if you use HD Video.

I only ever had trouble finding the downloads at the very beginning; soon gave up on iTunes. Started in 2010 with XBMC, (delight to use, limited feature set).
Some Players are way more helpful than others - JRiver will always grab whatever music you download, once you've specified (usually on the download site itself, or in the Mac under Safari Preferences) where you want it to go. Art usually comes with it - it's all done for you. Qobuz use TAR files though, so usually you have to unzip or decompress these, simply by clicking twice, and then JRiver sees them. Audirvana likewise, though it needs to be running at the time you download to do it. (Don't forget, when a download is just finished, you can locate it by clicking on the little arrow at the top righthand corner of the Mac screen).

JRiver is a complex player, in the sense that it offers audio analysers, great library functions, internet radio & much more - perhaps above all effortlessly simple playlist creation or file conversion. Looks fab too, especially with the "thunderstorm" skin, a sort of dark lilac-grey. BUT it does take a few days to master it, finding out where everything is.
Nothing worthwhile is easy, right? Audirvana is for someone who just wants to find the album and play it. Clear simple visuals; quick & easy choose & play; but limited feature set. I did find playlisting clumsy on it too. No "Recent Albums" list though which JRiver very usefully has.

Anyway, both these MPs and others offer a free trial, you just download and get about 3 weeks to decide whether to buy or not. They sound different too of course, but that's another story!
Me? I kept both of them... JRiver for effortless organisation and features (and hi-res, x-ray analytical sound), Audirvana for its sweeter, warmer, sonic character (and filter choices).

With all things computer though, it really is to do is to learn, to learn is to do..
Feeling like an idiot, solving problems - all part of the fun.

For me it was the desire to hear 24-bit audio that drove the download curve. Just as I learnt my way around the internet by searching for 2ndhand hifi, or obscure or deleted CDs...
It's all in the Motivation.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

No, the two are quite separate. One is about a group of musicians putting others down in a patronising way. The other about is an industry that wants to sell you nothing but the right to rearrange the particles on equipment you already own, instead of selling you something you didn't have in the first place.

I think you'll find that a "mafia" has far more efficient ways of "putting down" others than merely being "patronising". Mind you, the re-writes of The Godfather might be interesting:

"What has happened to Tom Serviccio?"
"He sleeps with the fishes, Don Corlione."
"I think you'll find" (withering look) "that more recent scholarship all suggests that he 'sleeps with the FISH!"

[Stunsworth]

I guess I need a DAC with a volume control (and USB) - do they do them for no more than £200?

Thinking about it overnight, you could control the volume with the standard Mac volume control. There's a Meridian DAC that costs £149...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Meridian-Audio-Explorer-USB-DAC/dp/B00BCJWTAM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1422179756&sr=8-2&keywords=meridian+explorer

There's a newer version of the same DAC for £199.

[Beef Oven!]

Thinking about it overnight, you could control the volume with the standard Mac volume control. There's a Meridian DAC that costs £149...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Meridian-Audio-Explorer-USB-DAC/dp/B00BCJWTAM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1422179756&sr=8-2&keywords=meridian+explorer

There's a newer version of the same DAC for £199.

Thanks Steve. I didn't know Meridian sold things at this price!!

Sorry for so many questions, but will it be a significant improvement on just connecting my active speakers through the headphone socket my MacBook Pro, as I do now?

[Nick Armstrong]

I think you'll find that a "mafia" has far more efficient ways of "putting down" others than merely being "patronising". Mind you, the re-writes of The Godfather might be interesting:

"What has happened to Tom Serviccio?"
"He sleeps with the fishes, Don Corlione."
"I think you'll find" (withering look) "that more recent scholarship all suggests that he 'sleeps with the FISH!"

Oh ! My version has Don Calibano...

[Nick Armstrong]

How would I link my MacBook Pro to a DAC? And how does it all link to the (active) speakers?

Reading through this thread, my question was exactly the same; and I'm similarly grateful for the answers.

Beef - when do you do the headphone socket/active speaker thing? When you're in a different place from your Airport Express, I suppose?

Because the set up here means that this

Remote streaming from a computer
There are various methods including AirPort Express, Sonus, etc, etc. WiFi works fine as long as there is a strong signal at the receiver (very important). I can stream 24/96 Flac over WiFi with no problem at all.

is all I need to get the most out of downloads, which have now totally replaced CD purchasing for me.

.

PS I also agree with the points about noise - the drive of the MBP is inaudible when playing music, even when the computer is a couple of feet from my ear beside the sofa.

[teamsaint]

Oh ! My version has Don Calibano...

Ah, it seems even the Mob like Moderation in all things........

[Nick Armstrong]

Ah, it seems even the Mob like Moderation in all things........

You talkin' to me? YOU TALKIN' TO ME?

[teamsaint]

You talkin' to me? YOU TALKIN' TO ME?

Can anybody link one of these sytems to a good quality espresso maker to time a nice drink to coincide with the end of a chosen piece?

i bet Jayne can...........

[Don Petter]

Can anybody link one of these systems to a good quality espresso maker to time a nice drink to coincide with the end of a chosen piece?

Judging by the length of time I have to wait in queues behind people ordering farty coffees, it would only work for symphonies.

[Dave2002]

Thinking about it overnight, you could control the volume with the standard Mac volume control. There's a Meridian DAC that costs £149...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Meridian-Audio-Explorer-USB-DAC/dp/B00BCJWTAM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1422179756&sr=8-2&keywords=meridian+explorer

There's a newer version of the same DAC for £199.

I'm not sure that approach will work. I think some of the outputs from the Macs are fixed level, so need an external volume control - though perhaps it does depend on the software used to play back.

I don't know how volume controls on DACs work - probably depends. The simplest of course is a digital control, but that would tinker with the signal. If done in floating point it would make a very slight difference to the signal, and if done using integer arithmetic then low order bits would be lost.

Most people wouldn't notice most of the time, but if one has taken steps to avoid having any tinkering with the signal, then these extra digital processes could be considered unwelcome.

DAC volume controls could simply be analogue volume controls placed somewhere in the path to the power amp. These should not have any effect on the digital signal.

I have a (now) older Beresford Caiman which has a volume control and a headphone socket and 4 inputs - 2 x coaxial digital, 1 x optical and 1 x USB. It's useful for listening in the middle of the night, and during the day it works rather well with amplifiers and speakers. The newer offerings are, I hear, somewhat better - but I've not considered upgrading yet. I tried a DAC Magic, but as it didn't sound any better than my Marantz CD player I returned it. The Beresford unit does sound good, though I find it hard to say that it's always better than my CD player. Some CD player DACs are really very good - at least for most people. The main reason for my choice of that DAC at the time was that it had more inputs and a headphone socket and a volume control, so it can be used as a kind of pre-amp.

As I've mentioned, the newer models are reported to be better - and I note that there are now two slight variants of the Bushmaster - one which has an asynchronous input. I'm guessing that's the one to go for, if driven by a suitable connection. See http://www.beresford.me/PP/cartlist.html

Other DACs are possible. One user reported significant improvements by spending a lot more money - for a Schiit DAC and pre-amp - see http://schiit.com/products/fulla - imported from the USA. Those units cost bring the cost of the DAC business up to around £2k, compared with around £150-£400 for a cheaper model.

Finally, a DAC is simply a way of converting a digital data stream to an analogue audio signal. You'd still need something to feed it with (a computer?) and something to feed it out to - pre-amp or power amp. That might be where some of the one box solutions do give a slight convenience advantage for some people, though at a cost. Despite that, I would definitely agree with jlw that better results can be obtained with separate units.

For cheapness I've heard that the Dragonfly DACs are good - and now can be had for around £130 - http://www.richersounds.com/product/...-dragonfly-1.2 These are perhaps best suited for headphone listening.

However, I have no idea how flexible those Dragonfly units are - number of inputs, outputs, volume control etc. Probably not flexible enough for some applications.

[Beef Oven!]

Reading through this thread, my question was exactly the same; and I'm similarly grateful for the answers.

Beef - when do you do the headphone socket/active speaker thing? When you're in a different place from your Airport Express, I suppose?

Good question!

There is no rationale to what I do on this matter!

Both in same room - but sometimes I take the MacBook and actives to another room if I'm spending time away from the living room (sometimes I forget that I'm still connected to the main system in the living room via the Airport, and can't understand why I can't hear the music, but feel the house shaking as I turn the volume up!).

I play music through the house system (Naim), via the Airport express as you do, and sometimes I play music with the small Genelec active speakers that are on the table with my MacBook - on a whim! I bought the Genelecs because I want to move to a smaller system, in time.

I use the house system CD player when I'm doing mega-serious listening and I want the best quality and I want to play very loud!. Like you, I really like the Naim system.

Also, I do like the Genelecs very much - MrGG put me onto them.