All in one players

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I'm a die-hard CD collector who shuns downloads as the format of Satan.

However, according to many industry propagandists, my wishes may be subsumed by the will of the perceived marketplace in the not-too-distant future.

So I've been looking at what might be required to buy DECENT downloads. I've seen these all-in-one players that are supposed to play CDs and have a 2Tb hard drive that hold the equivalent of 2000 CDs. But before breaking open my piggy bank, I'd appreciate some advice from people with experience of this technology.

JLW, are you there?

[jayne lee wilson]

Sorry, EA, but I tend to shun the one-box approach as it can't usually give you the best results from each format (disc, files, streaming)... if you don't want to use your current laptop, by downloading a media player like Audirvana or JRiver and connecting to an external DAC via USB or Optical, then you need a storage device like a Mac Mini (or other NAS, best hardwired via USB into the Dac), and a tablet (e.g. iPad) to act as the remote control, upon which screen will appear Cover Art, List of Albums and Tracks, player functions etc.

But you can get great results from the simplest Mac-and-a-Dac approach, PROVIDED you use USB Asynchronous connection. Optical is a pretty close second though...The great merit of paid-for players like JRiver etc. is that they shut down other computer functions while they operate ("Hog Mode") - result, better sound...

I've read lots of streamer reviews, would have to have another think about recommendables, so many at all price levels... but bear in mind most of them don't include storage - they're just a Receiver/Dac, so you're looking then for the ones with onboard HDD or SSDs, more complex and costly still (I think HighlandDougie uses a Naim version of this?)... it's usually way cheaper to use NAS/DAC with downloaded software players...
...also, the screen on the one-boxers can be a pain to scroll or read from your listening chair, a point not often mentioned in reviews. A decently sized computer/tablet screen at your side is an elegant & enjoyable way to browse, choose and play...

Just a few first thoughts... sorry not to be more helpful...

[gurnemanz]

I'm also a die-hard CD collector and have no plans to load them all onto some sort of hard drive. As an alternative option, downloads are really convenient and can be cheap. (Eg Barshai Shostakovich symphonies for £7.99, Beethoven Piano Sonatas Artur Schnabel £3.99). I have about 40 GB of mp3s on my laptop (backed up on a hard drive) and enjoy the convenience of being able to play these items with one click via USB lead to my amp and speakers using a recently acquired Arcam irDAC converter. I also play my CDs and TV sound through it with excellent results and it has a a remote control for easily switching output source.

[richardfinegold]

Sorry, EA, but I tend to shun the one-box approach as it can't usually give you the best results from each format (disc, files, streaming)... if you don't want to use your current laptop, by downloading a media player like Audirvana or JRiver and connecting to an external DAC via USB or Optical, then you need a storage device like a Mac Mini (or other NAS, best hardwired via USB into the Dac), and a tablet (e.g. iPad) to act as the remote control, upon which screen will appear Cover Art, List of Albums and Tracks, player functions etc.

But you can get great results from the simplest Mac-and-a-Dac approach, PROVIDED you use USB Asynchronous connection. Optical is a pretty close second though...The great merit of paid-for players like JRiver etc. is that they shut down other computer functions while they operate ("Hog Mode") - result, better sound...

I've read lots of streamer reviews, would have to have another think about recommendables, so many at all price levels... but bear in mind most of them don't include storage - they're just a Receiver/Dac, so you're looking then for the ones with onboard HDD or SSDs, more complex and costly still (I think HighlandDougie uses a Naim version of this?)... it's usually way cheaper to use NAS/DAC with downloaded software players...
...also, the screen on the one-boxers can be a pain to scroll or read from your listening chair, a point not often mentioned in reviews. A decently sized computer/tablet screen at your side is an elegant & enjoyable way to browse, choose and play...

Just a few first thoughts... sorry not to be more helpful...

I second the Mac and DAC approach. I had bought a dedicated streamer and never use it. Currently listening to Horenstein/LSO Mahler 3 fom my Mac Air. The Lps never sounded close to this good.

[Stunsworth]

I've been using the Mac+DAC approach for a few years, works perfectly well (for me).

[VodkaDilc]

I'm a die-hard CD collector who shuns downloads as the format of Satan.

However, according to many industry propagandists, my wishes may be subsumed by the will of the perceived marketplace in the not-too-distant future.

I am completely in agreement with Eine Alpensinfonie, but I've highlighted the crucial phrase in his posting. As long as CD players are available (and I've got a new one on order) I will be playing my CDs. I do not find the need to experiment with other means of listening - except to explore the possibilities of reviving my vinyl collection.

[Beef Oven!]

I've been using the Mac+DAC approach for a few years, works perfectly well (for me).

I have no idea how that works. How would I link my MacBook Pro to a DAC? And how does it all link to the (active) speakers?

[Stunsworth]

I have no idea how that works. How would I link my MacBook Pro to a DAC? And how does it all link to the (active) speakers?

The headphone socket on the MacBook can also provide a digital optical output. You could connect that to the optical input of a DAC. Alternatively, assuming the DAC has a suitable input, you could use a USB cable to connect the two devices. I have a USB connection between my Mac Mini and the DAC.

If the DAC has a volume control (my M-Dac has) you could connect the DAC to the active speakers directly, or if it lacks a volume control you could connect the DAC to a pre-amp as you would a CD player and then connect the pre-amp to the active speakers.

[jayne lee wilson]

I am completely in agreement with Eine Alpensinfonie, but I've highlighted the crucial phrase in his posting. As long as CD players are available (and I've got a new one on order) I will be playing my CDs. I do not find the need to experiment with other means of listening - except to explore the possibilities of reviving my vinyl collection.

Who are the Industry Propagandists? I think we should be told...

I still play & love CDs too of course, but if ever Amazon and iTunes start selling lossless/hi-res routinely on pop & rock albums, things could change very quickly for the great & venerable CD... but I'd guess that smaller specialist Classical labels would at least offer burn-to-order CDs even if margins got tighter...

Not to mention 24-bit computeraudio.. it can get really addictive... but it won't be the reason CD production will reduce.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Who are the Industry Propagandists? I think we should be told...

I think they might be the political wing of the provisional "HIPP mafia".

[teamsaint]

Who are the Industry Propagandists? I think we should be told...

I still play & love CDs too of course, but if ever Amazon and iTunes start selling lossless/hi-res routinely on pop & rock albums, things could change very quickly for the great & venerable CD... but I'd guess that smaller specialist Classical labels would at least offer burn-to-order CDs even if margins got tighter...

Not to mention 24-bit computeraudio.. it can get really addictive... but it won't be the reason CD production will reduce.

Suitably goaded, a wage slave writes.....

a person might glimpse of who industry propagandist is, or what they look like, if they worked for a publisher , where the MD views book stock as as an unnecessary overhead.

(And views the requirement for staff, as Norman Stanley Fletcher's trial judge put it, in the same casual manner).
Luckily, huge amounts of physical product still sell,which is great for the public and the people who work in the industry.( and ancilliary industries).

Oh god its the weekend,I should have left that stuff at the office.

[Beef Oven!]

The headphone socket on the MacBook can also provide a digital optical output. You could connect that to the optical input of a DAC. Alternatively, assuming the DAC has a suitable input, you could use a USB cable to connect the two devices. I have a USB connection between my Mac Mini and the DAC.

If the DAC has a volume control (my M-Dac has) you could connect the DAC to the active speakers directly, or if it lacks a volume control you could connect the DAC to a pre-amp as you would a CD player and then connect the pre-amp to the active speakers.

Thanks very much Steve, I think I've almost got my head around that.

I guess I need a DAC with a volume control (and USB) - do they do them for no more than £200?

[Dave2002]

The headphone socket on the MacBook can also provide a digital optical output. You could connect that to the optical input of a DAC. Alternatively, assuming the DAC has a suitable input, you could use a USB cable to connect the two devices. I have a USB connection between my Mac Mini and the DAC.

If the DAC has a volume control (my M-Dac has) you could connect the DAC to the active speakers directly, or if it lacks a volume control you could connect the DAC to a pre-amp as you would a CD player and then connect the pre-amp to the active speakers.

It should also be possible to find a wireless solution. Arguably that could possibly lower the audio quality, but it is feasible to get reasonable results. The motivation for looking for a wireless solution is to keep the utility of the MBP laptop. Personally I do link my MBP via various cables from time to time, but it's not ideal for a permanent solution.

For a dedicated system perhaps a cheapish second hand Mac mini would be a reasonable thing to try, and would give the digital output functionality to drive a DAC. If not too old, it could be made compatible with the MBP, which could than be used to control it via a wireless/wired link - wireless to a router, then wired from the router to the Mac mini.

Just an idea. Of course if the MBP is surplus there is no major reason why it shouldn't be used to drive an audio system, or it can be "plugged in" as required.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I think they might be the political wing of the provisional "HIPP mafia".

No, the two are quite separate. One is about a group of musicians putting others down in a patronising way. The other about is an industry that wants to sell you nothing but the right to rearrange the particles on equipment you already own, instead of selling you something you didn't have in the first place.

[johnb]

The more I think about EA's question the more complicated it seems to answer.

Firstly, are you thinking about getting an All in One player because you are intending to change your audio system anyway?

Does your existing audio system have a DAC?

What is your budget?

There are a number of options for playing downloaded files (and for playing files off-air from broadcasts):

1) Remote streaming from a computer or a NAS in another room.
There are various methods including AirPort Express, Sonus, etc, etc. WiFi works fine as long as there is a strong signal at the receiver (very important). I can stream 24/96 Flac over WiFi with no problem at all.

(Also many DVD/BluRay players have the ability to stream from DNLA servers running on a computer, e.g. Windows Media Centre, J River, etc). However this approach, though useful, is far from ideal.)

2) Directly connecting the digital output or USB to a DAC in your audio system.
As others have shown, many are very happy with this solution but I dislike having a laptop or PC in the same room partly because they are rarely if ever silent.

3) Directly connecting the analogue audio out from a computer to your audio system.
Very much a last resort unless you buy a high quality soundcard for the computer.

4) Adding a dedicated box which incorporates a HDD to your audio system
There are quite a few such devices and they range from cheap(ish) and dirty (did someone mention Brennan?) to devices costing many, many thousands (e.g. Meridian)

One aspect that is overlooked is the user interface. How easy is it to select and play the music you are searching for? If you have only a few downloads or only a few CDs ripped to a HDD this isn't that important but as your collection grows this aspect is absolutely critical. If connecting directly with a computer there is software such as J River, otherwise whatever method is chosen it should, ideally, be able to be controlled by a fully featured tablet app.

To give you an idea of what is possible I have uploaded a few screen captures from the iPad (using the iPeng app) I use to control my Squeezebox Touch (which streams from a HP Microserver, used as a glorified NAS). This, for me, is just about ideal.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/o0zfzrurpw656gm/AABlpTrG1YaBQzoVRvax0wqja?dl=0

(Of course the ease of use depends on how you tag the files.)