Microsoft Office 365

[Dave2002]

Microsoft seem to be employing a new sales tactic - trying to force some of us into a subscription mode. I have not been a great fan of MS products for many years, but sometimes it is necessary to use them. I have versions of Office 2011 for Mac running on several machines.

Now they seem to be making it a bit harder to get that software, but they are promoting Office 365, which seems to me to be an attempt to sell software which will expire unless a long term commitment is made. I did test a trial version of Office 365 when it was first announced a few years ago, and at the time it seemed very rough, even when compared with the standard MS products.

Have others experiences of MS 365? Perhaps most people are trying to stick with older software to avoid this, but that strategy doesn't work so well for new machines.

[johnb]

Well, I'm still using Office 2003 but there are no longer any security patches. I would have bought Office 2013 but the price is prohibitive for what I need, so the options for me are (a) continue with Office 2003 but replace Outlook with, say, the Mozilla equivalent, (b) one of the free office suites, such as Libre Office or (c) Office 365.

I'll try out Libre Office first and then decide.

[Dave2002]

Well, I'm still using Office 2003 but there are no longer any security patches. I would have bought Office 2013 but the price is prohibitive for what I need, so the options for me are (a) continue with Office 2003 but replace Outlook with, say, the Mozilla equivalent, (b) one of the free office suites, such as Libre Office or (c) Office 365.

I'll try out Libre Office first and then decide.

Are you running on Windows?

I have Libre Office on my Macs, but really I find it very buggy. There is a problem with the characters following the cursor - or not, which at times makes it unusable. I've not seen this reported anywhere, but it's consistent on my machines. I have tried reinstalls to get rid of this problem, but without success.

I find Open Office, which is very similar and also free, rather good, and it doesn't have the same problem as far as I can tell. Curiously it manages to reproduce some, but not all, of the features (bugs) of the MS products, though it has not followed the latest MS developments. I have gradually found it easier to use than the MS software, and now even if I do produce a Word document, I often do it in Open Office first, then convert for later versions. It is also easy to generate PDFs, which is a feature I use quite a lot.

For spreadsheets I probably do prefer Excel to most of the alternatives, but I would not particularly feel the need to upgrade from a previous version.

Most sane people probably don't bother with Powerpoint, or Access, but some people have to. At times that includes me. I do still occasionally give presentations. Some people find that having a simple database tool is useful, while others do get thrust into more complex databases using SQL and similar.

The Mozilla equivalent of Outlook is, I think, Thunderbird, and it's not bad. However, if you have a system which still works you probably don't have an immediate need to change or "upgrade". Since we gradually moved more or less completely over to using Macs we tend not to use much Windows software, and as little MS software as possible.

I haven't had much experience of the data base application included in Open Office. I expect it is perfectly serviceable.

Over the last few years, I found eventually that I did have to buy the newer versions of MS Office, as compatibility problems with others were too severe, and on one occasion I had an urgent need to "get things right", so I did end up downloading and paying for the latest MS version at the time. Do you manage to cope with the latest MS file formats? There are usually ways around, but sometimes it's just quicker to buy the latest software.

Where I have "had" to buy MS software, I have tended to exploit family packs, student editions, and other special offers, which I was able to do legitimately, which almost made the cost acceptable.

[Lento]

Mac software suits my limited needs, and it's really easy plus the free web version of MS Word if absolutely necessary. I think Microsoft are behind the curve at the moment, but ditching their software completely has it's problems for some users.

[Dave2002]

Mac software suits my limited needs, and it's really easy plus the web version of MS Word if absolutely necessary. I think Microsoft are behind the curve at the moment, but ditching their software completely has it's problems for some users.

Apart from my general feelings towards MS, which haven't really changed too much over three decades, the current information about MS 365 seems very confusing. Does seem that some packages do have installable software, plus also access to web based material, and internet storage, but also that running the software may require periodic "validation", particularly if packages or upgrades are activated.

You mention the "web version of MS Word" - is this something which has been around for a while? Do you have to pay for it, or is it just a bonus if you have an installed copy of the software? You also qualify your comments about the web version by the words "if absolutely necessary" - did you have problems with it?

Is that web version the same as what you get with MS 365?

[PJPJ]

I find Open Office, which is very similar and also free, rather good......

So do I. I have used it since 2006 or so and with no problems opening files from various MS products. My OO Word equivalent saves as MS Word and no-one has had any difficulty opening documents I've sent them.

[Lento]

Is that web version the same as what you get with MS 365?

The free web apps may not suit you,Dave, but here’s some non-expert info.

I think the web apps are part of the MS Onedrive website, so you have to be online to use them. Onedrive (formerly Skydrive) provides online storage, free, I think. You set up Onedrive storage online then upload your documents. Then, if you go to the Onedrive website and try to open one of your (online) stored Word docs, say, it asks you if you want to open it with the MS Word software on your machine or with the Word web app.

The web apps have fewer features than the full Office 365 versions, so if you have uploaded a password protected doc, for example, the web app won’t be able to open it. But for fairly simple needs, the web app is fine, and can be less daunting. You don’t need a live subscription.

I have only set up Onedrive from a PC, but it seems this can be done from a Mac, though I haven’t looked into it.

With a PC, your local docs are supposed to stay in sync with the online ones; I don’t know if this can be achieved if your local docs are stored on a Mac. If you’re not worried about having a local, offline, copy, then no problem. You need a local copy of Word to open a local copy, in any case, although files can be uploaded again.

If I needed Word (I wouldn't), online would be fine for me, but I find Pages easier, so have stopped using it.

[french frank]

Perhaps most people are trying to stick with older software to avoid this, but that strategy doesn't work so well for new machines.

I just buy secondhand machines and have all my programs and files copied on to it. Still using Microsoft: mac 2008 because I got used to Word with a PC. Not sure whether it had to be re-registered with each machine.

[Dave2002]

So do I. I have used it since 2006 or so and with no problems opening files from various MS products. My OO Word equivalent saves as MS Word and no-one has had any difficulty opening documents I've sent them.

Problems may emerge if you have to collaborate with anyone who has the latest Office. I think the critical event last time Ii had to cough up was after being sent an Excel file which I could not procees and return in an acceptable form. I had only a few hours to do that, and "yes" it was important. If your collaborators aren't in such a hurry, and are willing to go along with you, then sometimes work arounds using other tools can work out. Now that HMG has declared Open Doc as a preferred standard, it should become acceptable to use Open Office most of the time.

[PJPJ]

Problems may emerge if you have to collaborate with anyone who has the latest Office. I think the critical event last time Ii had to cough up was after being sent an Excel file which I could not procees and return in an acceptable form. I had only a few hours to do that, and "yes" it was important. If your collaborators aren't in such a hurry, and are willing to go along with you, then sometimes work arounds using other tools can work out. Now that HMG has declared Open Doc as a preferred standard, it should become acceptable to use Open Office most of the time.

Anyone with the latest MS Office will have the same problems collaborating with users of earlier MS Office let alone those using Open Office. Perhaps MS did this deliberately to force people to "upgrade".

[johnb]

Anyone with the latest MS Office will have the same problems collaborating with users of earlier MS Office let alone those using Open Office.

Not really as there is the option to save files in earlier formats.

[johnb]

Are you running on Windows?
.....
I find Open Office, which is very similar and also free, rather good, and it doesn't have the same problem as far as I can tell. Curiously it manages to reproduce some, but not all, of the features (bugs) of the MS products, though it has not followed the latest MS developments. I have gradually found it easier to use than the MS software, and now even if I do produce a Word document, I often do it in Open Office first, then convert for later versions. It is also easy to generate PDFs, which is a feature I use quite a lot.
.....
Most sane people probably don't bother with Powerpoint, or Access, but some people have to.
......
The Mozilla equivalent of Outlook is, I think, Thunderbird, and it's not bad. However, if you have a system which still works you probably don't have an immediate need to change or "upgrade". Since we gradually moved more or less completely over to using Macs we tend not to use much Windows software, and as little MS software as possible.

Thanks for your reply and your thoughts about Open Office.

Yes, I do use Windows (7) and have no complaints about it.

Admittedly I still have the old Office 2003 Pro so have little experience of Office 2007/10/13 but I have always found that Office is very reliable and stable so I am puzzled why you imply it is buggy. (Of course things might have changed since Office 2003, but Office is *the* software that the vast majority of businesses use by default.)

Your comment that "Most sane people probably don't bother with Powerpoint, or Access" is very odd to say the least. It depends on what people's needs are. Before I fully retired I used both Powerpoint and Access on a regular basis and even now I use Access fairly often. (Thinking about it - you might be right as many people think I am a bit odd.)

The reason I mentioned the Mozilla equivalent of Outlook is that Outlook 2003 is now increasingly vulnerable since MS stopped doing security updates for both it and Word 2003 (which it uses by default as a text editor). I do still use it but have set it to only display text. When there is html/picture content from a trusted source it is very easy to display it for that email.

I'll probably keep using Office 2003 until I have a reason to change (though I will probably move away from Outlook).

[Dave2002]

Anyone with the latest MS Office will have the same problems collaborating with users of earlier MS Office let alone those using Open Office. Perhaps MS did this deliberately to force people to "upgrade".

Tell me about it!

I once had to give up on one diagram for an article/presentation, and send it by low quality fax, which I think must have been scanned back in at the receiver's end, as all attempts to send it embedded in different versions of Word failed. That was before 2003, so long before Word had the XML based formats from around 2007, which results in some files appearing as zip files to some users, and can still be a source of confusion to some.
To those who say there are always work arounds - yes, I tried several of them first - and none of them worked, hence in the end fax was the only practical solution. Life is short enough without having to waste time on software which is incompatible even with different versions of itself.

Regarding bugs in Word, there have been several, and one which has been for a long time a pain is for documents with a lot of different numbering. There are work arounds for that too, and the first thing is to assume that it isn't going to work, and then use tables to get the layout with the numbered sections to work. I only found that out after several years of problems, when I worked in an office where others had noticed the same problem and told me their fix. The fix usually worked, but required a different mind set, and for shorter documents I'd hope to get away without having to use it.

Some versions of Word lull you into a false sense of security, and get things mostly right - until things fall apart, and then getting it all sorted usually takes a long while. I have in the past had to export files to other formats to fix the problems, and then re-import them back into Word. Never had that particular problem with nroff, troff or Latex!

I agree with johnb that some people do use (need to use?) presentation and database software, but I'd still strongly suggest that most people don't. There's not a lot of point in using presentation software for oneself, and while there can be personal applications for databases (e.g cataloguing a CD collection) many manage well enough without ever seriously needing to use such tools. People who are in certain lines of business will use such tools, but my guess is that most people will only ever use word processors and spreadsheets for personal use.

[Dave2002]

I'm still following up the 365 issue. Microsoft are not presenting too clearly what's going on, though I have now phoned them regarding issues relating to 365 University and 365 Home editions, and a clearer picture is emerging in my mind. I will come back to this.

However, in the meantime I found this - Office for iPad:

http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msuk/en_GB/pdp/Office-for-iPad/productID.299486700

and also this:

http://office.microsoft.com/en-gb/office365home/

The Home version allows installation on up to 5 PCs and Macs, and a further 5 tablets (iPads etc.)

Has anyone tried the tablet versions yet, or read any reviews?

[Dave2002]

Further information is emerging. The Mac version of 365 includes Mac Office 2011. Some of us have that already. The problem is that the 365 will most probably delete the installed version, and then put in a supposedly better new version. That's OK as long as one continues with Microsoft's subscription model. According to MS, if one decides to stop the subscription, then it is possible to reinstall the original providing the license key is still available, and perhaps also the original disc would be required.

One concern, raised in another thread about Windoze 8 is whether one really should trust Microsoft. http://www.for3.org/forums/showthrea...-be-a-dead-O-S