New Mac computer - storage advice

[Dave2002]

I have had experience of all of the different storage devices used on iMacs and Mac laptops, but with only limited experience of the Fusion drives.

SSDs have the advantage of being quiet (mostly), with very quick start up times. They tend to cost more than hard drives, and still usually offer smaller storage.

HDDs may be noisier and probably have longer start up times.

Apple's Fusion drives are said to offer the best of both worlds.


Regarding noise, SSDs are of course virtually silent - but in practice if the computer gets hot, then even using SSDs the fan will kick in and can become noisy. This can happen in the UK in hot weather, or in hot environments.

Apple's HDDs are usually fairly quiet, in my experience, and this should also apply to Fusion drives.

Looking at the current offerings for Macs, preferred options would seem to be:

256 Gbyte SSD
512 Gbyte SSD
1 TB Fusion Drive
3 TB Fusion Drive

plus HDD options.

Do any board members have significant experience of any of these for a desktop machine? I expect, of course, an answer that it will "all depend" on what the machine is to be used for, and how important various factors are.

Anyway, over to you!

[Stunsworth]

If it were a desktop I'd go for the larger SSD device and keep the data on external drives. 512 gig is enough for the OS and programs IMHO. For a laptop I'd get the largest fusion drive - as I'd need to extra capacity for data.

In both cases I'd use an external drive to provide Time Machine backups.

[MrGongGong]

I have a 1TB Seagate Hybrid drive in a macbook pro
(this one http://www.macupgrades.co.uk/store/p...roducts_id=821)

I couldn't afford a large SSD but this seems to work very well indeed

[Dave2002]

I have a 1TB Seagate Hybrid drive in a macbook pro
(this one http://www.macupgrades.co.uk/store/p...roducts_id=821)

I couldn't afford a large SSD but this seems to work very well indeed

Thanks for that.
Did you have it fitted specially, or is that in fact Apple's own offering?

I note the following:

The benefits to read speed can be substantial, but do depend on usage. A user who only boots one OS, and runs the same applications on a regular basis will see speeds very close those of a full SSD when booting and loading applications. However a user who usually accesses a wide range of data - perhaps through regularly dual booting multiple operating systems and running a wide range of applications - will be accessing much of the data from the standard 5400RPM hard drive, and will see much less benefit.

It is also worth noting that the benefits will not be seen until the SSD has cached regularly used files - so it will take a period of normal use before the benefits are seen.

Presumably this means that the first time the machine is booted up it runs a bit slower, but subsequently is almost as fast at starting up as a regular SSD. We are looking for short start up times, so perhaps the largest affordable SSD is the way to go.

Steve's point about using a Fusion drive on a laptop is an interesting one - though I think that's not a standard option on a Macbook Air, nor indeed on any of Apple's current laptop range.

The expected pattern of use is predicted to be light usage probably at home on the laptop, and also in mobile mode, with serious work done on the desktop, and therefore a significantly higher specification for the desktop. To avoid clutter we'll most likely go for an Airport Time Machine. I was hoping they would have produced a new version by now with USB 3 ports rather than USB 2, and possibly also Thunderbolt connectivity. That could come later I suppose, as we already have more than enough portable drives for backups and Time Machine, or if we find we need more they are not very expensive.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I have the 1 TB iMac. I chose this because I have a very large number of high resolution photographs, and these eat memory. Having said that, it will be some before I come anywhere near passing the 512 GB milestone, but I'm sure it will be passed before the computer expires.

[Stunsworth]

Steve's point about using a Fusion drive on a laptop is an interesting one - though I think that's not a standard option on a Macbook Air, nor indeed on any of Apple's current laptop range.

Apologies, you're correct. That makes the decision easier <grin>.

[MrGongGong]

Thanks for that.
Did you have it fitted specially, or is that in fact Apple's own offering?
.

I bought it
Unscrewed the back
and installed it
then copied the cloned HD onto it

I do find it very fast indeed but a nice size for the large number of uncompressed audio files that I work with

[Dave2002]

One advantage of SSDs for laptops is that there's virtually no chance of damaging the storage by a knock or worse.
This is less of an issue for desktops.

Glad to hear that the Seagate "fusion" works for you, though it perhaps doesn't use exactly the same algorithms as Apple's drives. Difficult to say, as Apple haven't given too much away about how their drives work. The Seagate has 8 Gbytes of SSD - not now sure about Apple's. When released I thought they were only 4 Gbytes, but maybe the spec has changed. 8 Gbytes should be good for a lot of media work, except really serious HD video.

[Dave2002]

Maybe (or not) I got the data wrong in my comments about Apple's Fusion drive having only 4 Gbytes of SSD storage - to check would require looking in the "history" books.

I found this about 2014 models of the iMac (21.5 inch) with Fusion drives:

The model we tested included two drives, combined together in software by OS X’s Core Storage technology to create what Apple calls a Fusion Drive. Here this comprised a 128 GB SanDisk SSD attached by PCIe, and a 1 TB Hitachi Travelstar 5K1000 SATA disk.

http://www.macworld.co.uk/review/mac-desktops/apple-imac-215-inch-mid-2014-with-fusion-drive-review-3534626/

so with 128 Gbyte SSD that should do rather well. Presumably it's clever enough to know that it can start up from the SSD if it is able to, so that looks like a good option.

It'd be interesting to know whether the other models also have the same amount (or more) of SSD, as some users may want to have a 3 TByte drive, rather than the "measly" 1 Tbyte model.

Lastly, with large drives, reliability can be an issue. Drives can always fail, and Sod's law is likely to dictate that you'll have just about filled up your N Gbyte/Tbyte drive and lost the most recent backups when your one fails. Is there any possibility that a Fusion drive would be less problematic, or that at least some of the data could be recovered, in the event of a crash? Maybe not - but just a thought.

There may still be some models from 2013 shipping, and Apple may not have updated all the drives (I don't know), so anyone else thinking along these lines should check if they're concerned, and I'll try to find out more.

[MrGongGong]

One advantage of SSDs for laptops is that there's virtually no chance of damaging the storage by a knock or worse.
This is less of an issue for desktops.
.

I knocked my laptop off a desk last week onto a hard floor
(never done that before and not planning to do it again)
and all was fine and still works well

[Dave2002]

I knocked my laptop off a desk last week onto a hard floor
(never done that before and not planning to do it again)
and all was fine and still works well

Glad to hear that. Come to think of it, I never, IIRC, did that, but I have lost optical drives. I figure that if the arm with the head comes loose, then they are stuffed, and even a gentle bump can cause that. I hope the laptop isn't too battered.

[MrGongGong]

Glad to hear that. Come to think of it, I never, IIRC, did that, but I have lost optical drives. I figure that if the arm with the head comes loose, then they are stuffed, and even a gentle bump can cause that. I hope the laptop isn't too battered.

It's fine
It's got accelerometers which are supposed to "park" the HD when subjected to sudden impacts
not sure if they really work ?
BUt i've seen other machines die as a result of a similar knock (not by me, he added !)

[Dave2002]

I'd still be interested to know about Fusion drives, but in the end I figured that a 512 Gbyte SSD was the best option for our immediate and not too distant future needs.

I think if SSDs themselves use the kind of flash technology which has been around for a while, eg. in USB sticks, then they themselves could wear out and become unreliable, but I don't know what the state of play is with the latest stuff. Certainly a few years ago SSDs were made with spare data cells, so that as the cells "wore out" the data could be moved to other "better" locations. The design relies on probabilities to a certain extent, and if data doesn't move too much then SSDs should be fine.

My understanding is that if data is written and re-written to the same location over and over, then eventually failures will occur, hence the need for some complex/complicated storage management.

However, armed with a 3 year guarantee, plus backup drives to ensure data integrity, the SSDs seemed the best option for the volume of storage really needed.
Overflow can go on hard drives as usual.

In 3 years time the world will be different! SSDs will be bigger for the same price. Hard drives might be used less - really don't know, though perhaps not as if larger displays also become popular some people will be storing huge files with very high quality video.

For some current users hard drives or Fusion Drives will be a significantly better option than SSDs at the present time. It's perhaps a pity that integrated machines, such as iMacs can't be configured with both. I know that some will argue that Fusion Drives do that, but they do move data around when the user's not looking, which would not be the case with a separate hard drive.

[MrGongGong]

One option that I did explore before getting the hybrid was to have a SSD for the OS and programs (so something about 250GB) and replace the CD/DVD drive with a second HD with a much larger capacity for data. I still do use the DVD drive though so figured that I would then start carrying around a separate one so ruled that out for now.
I think you are right though, in a few years SSD will be the norm I think.

[Beef Oven!]

I bought it
Unscrewed the back
and installed it
then copied the cloned HD onto it

I do find it very fast indeed but a nice size for the large number of uncompressed audio files that I work with

Next time you're in Cafe Oto, I'll bring a screw-driver and you can help me do the same

Or you might pull a fast-one, like last time