Panasonic DVD RAM Discs

[Petrushka]

I have a Panasonic DVD recorder DMR-EX83EB and have always bought these DVD RAM discs: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Panasonic-sp...0ZS1BEBKW3W2C9

However, it seems they are no longer available. Can someone say if these will work ok?: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Panasonic-sp...1TZ7M7CGPFKQ63

[Dave2002]

I had forgotten about DVD RAMs - and I think that fairly few devices use that media format. Besides the Panasonic discs there are also media from Verbatim and TDK, and I even found this ebay advert for Memorex - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rewritable...item3ce3639950

Looking at the specs for your machine it seems to do a lot, and has a hard drive, so perhaps you don't use the recorder to write to disc media frequently. Does it only work with DVD-RAM discs, or will it work with DVD-Rs or DVD+Rs as well? The discs you are interested in are rewritable, so that puts the cost up. I would suggest buying a box of the double sided discs, and seeing if they work. They should do, but there's no absolute guarantee. You could also try some of the other makes, though I would expect the Panasonic discs to be ideally suited to your machine. You can also still find suppliers for the single sided Panasonic discs on eBay.

As I recall few DVD makers adopted the DVD-RAM media format, and early models of DVD-RAM recorders, perhaps even without a hard drive, might be compromised by that, and owners may need to stock up on DVD-RAMs before the format becomes obsolete or very difficult to obtain. Newer models may not have the same constraints regarding exporting and importing from exchangeable media.

[johnb]

The only difference between the two discs appears to be that the second type are double sided whereas the ones you have previously bought are single sided. You shouldn't have a problem with them.

[Dave2002]

The only difference between the two discs appears to be that the second type are double sided whereas the ones you have previously bought are single sided. You shouldn't have a problem with them.

Having said that, some reviewers commented that getting dirt and thumb prints on the discs does cause problems, and perhaps if you want to write anything on the discs that may cause a problem. Otherwise I agree with that view.

I'd still be interested to know what our OP uses these for, as most users nowadays neither use read only DVDs nor rewritable ones, since the advent of PVRs with hard drive storage. These will in turn be superseded by SSD based or similar storage devices in years to come. One of my friends a few years ago was extolling the virtues of one of his (then) new devices, which I think could do video cassettes, DVD and possibly even had a hard drive. For him it was useful, and he was helpful to others who wanted to have material copied from old to new media, but many people seem to have moved on and consigned DVD recording to the dustbin of history, along with video cassettes and other older media forms.

[Roslynmuse]

Having said that, some reviewers commented that getting dirt and thumb prints on the discs does cause problems, and perhaps if you want to write anything on the discs that may cause a problem. Otherwise I agree with that view.

I'd still be interested to know what our OP uses these for, as most users nowadays neither use read only DVDs nor rewritable ones, since the advent of PVRs with hard drive storage. These will in turn be superseded by SSD based or similar storage devices in years to come. One of my friends a few years ago was extolling the virtues of one of his (then) new devices, which I think could do video cassettes, DVD and possibly even had a hard drive. For him it was useful, and he was helpful to others who wanted to have material copied from old to new media, but many people seem to have moved on and consigned DVD recording to the dustbin of history, along with video cassettes and other older media forms.

What happens to the recordings one has carefully amassed on the hard-drive when the machine packs up? (I rarely record anything so it's almost a completely hypothetical question as far as I'm concerned - but interested to see what others do to 'back up'.)

[Dave2002]

What happens to the recordings one has carefully amassed on the hard-drive when the machine packs up? (I rarely record anything so it's almost a completely hypothetical question as far as I'm concerned - but interested to see what others do to 'back up'.)

I am tempted to write "tough!" - but that seems unkind. It does happen. If it happens early on in a machine's life it may be under guarantee, and can be reset, but the recordings are lost. If there's anything of real importance then it's a good idea to back up somehow, though backing up using the DVD-RAM format may not be the way to go. I once received a copy of a DVD-RAM, and although my DVD writer was eventually able to read it, I recall that it was a bit of a pain because of the file formats used. My newer machines have USB output, and if I really want something backed up I'll back up to an external hard disc, but that's often a lot slower than needed. For much material recorded off TV it will usually come round again, or can be obtained on DVD or from DVD libraries, so personally I don't bother so much there.

It really does depend what is recorded, and how important it is for the end user. Private and personal material should always be backed up in multiple formats - though that's easier said than done. Radio programmes may present particular problems, as they may be less likely to be repeated. Some TV programmes which appear to be difficult to recover (e.g Horizon) re-appear as YouTube videos on occasion, though not reliably so.

Many machines are based on an operating system such as Linux, and have standard drives inside. Some tech enthusiasts are able (sometimes) to remove the drives and recover most of the data they contain. This could be easy or very difficult, depending on the expertise of the enthusiast, and also on the severity of the fault. Sometimes this kind of device loses the VTOC or similar content directory, which can be reset at the expense of losing all the data. Knoweldgeable users would try to avoid doing that if there is a chance of getting the recordings back by removing the drive. The machines can often be brought back into service by replacing the internal drive with a new one, and then one can hope to recover the files by treating the removed drive as an external disc drive on another system.

I suspect that for TV material the easiest solution is not to worry too much - "if it happens, it happens!" - infuriating as that can be. Take every reasonable step and a few less reasonable ones to avoid personal material getting lost though.

[Petrushka]

Thanks for replies. I use these discs to keep off-air recordings, TV or radio and mostly Proms. A hard drive is all very well but, as has been said already, once it packs in you've lost everything. The discs form my own permanent archive.

By the way, I really can't see why DVD RAM hasn't become the standard. It's so easy to edit.

[johnb]

To understand the uses of DVD-RAM discs with the Panasonic DVD/HD recorders one has to understand how those recorders work.

Based on my experience, with the first Panasonic DVD/HD they ever made, the Panasonics do not record the native .ts streams (unlike, say, the Humax boxes) but transcode everything to their XP, SP, LP and EP formats (this still applies to the DMR-EX83EB). These videos can to copied to and from DVD-RAM discs with no loss in quality as the DVD-RAM discs use the same formats as the HDD.

When copying to a DVD-R disc the Panasonic further transcodes the video and, on the old Panasonic DVD/HD recorder I had, one wasn't able to copy the video back, from the DVD-R to the HDD.

So DVD-RAM discs were useful as an archive. They are also markedly more reliable and have a much greater life than DVD-R discs. The drawback to them is that many (most?) non-Panasonic players won't play them, though if you have a computer drive that accepts DVD-RAMs there is software (such as VideoReDo) that can read the data and can burn a DVD-R. DVD-RAM discs can also be read and written to on a computer, just like a hard drive.

The original Panasonic DVD/HD recorders were a tremendous leap forward from the old VHS recorders and they are simple for the consumer to use. Their draw backs are (a) they transcode the native .ts stream to another format when recording to the HDD/DVD-RAM (with some picture degradation), (b) the XP format on the HDD takes up vastly more space than the native .ts and (c) there is some further degradation when the video is transcoded once again when burning to DVD-R. (Whether the degradation due to transcoding is noticeable or not is another matter.)

On the early models at least, there was an additional quirk in that all video was actually recorded as 4:3. When the video was widescreen it was fitted into the 4:3 format with black bars top and bottom. Users would not be aware of this as widescreen video was still played as widescreen, but the fact that it only used part of the 4:3 format meant that the there was some trade-off in quality (once again, whether that is noticeable or not is another matter).

[Dave2002]

I don't know the state re DVD rewriters these days, but the LG one I bought years ago can do many formats, including DVD-RAM. It is also robust, which many later models are not. The only problem I have with it is getting the drivers for different machines. I hardly use it at all now, but I could if really necessary.

If such a device can be bought now, then it might be possible to back up DVD-RAMs on to a computer with either an internal or external hard drive.

Again, I'm not fully up to date with the newest DVD devices - some may have ethernet, in which case it might be possible to back off over a network. Some have wi-fi now, but wireless back up could be slow. I have had experience of backing up via USB from similar devices, but that can be slow, even with newer models which should support fast USB transfers.