DSD: Any Takers?

[Thropplenoggin]

Sadly, 18 months old is middle aged for a computer. I've rarely had a Windows PC go more than 2 years and many that didn't make it to it's first anniversary.
I've almost never had a CD player die on me. The two that did had seen plenty of service and were buried with full honors.
Universal disc players that will play SACD and Blu Ray--and many with digital inputs so that they can double as DACs--are now very inexpensive. Great sounding models can be had from Pioneer, Oppo, Cambridge Audio, Yamaha, and Marantz for under $500. I'm listening to Pletnev/Tchaikovsky Pathetique on Pentatone as I write this. It couldn't be easier--pop the disc tray, put in the SACD, and High Resolution sound fills the room. No computers to torment me.
My goal is to clear as much storage space by digitalizing as many non essential red book cds as possible andthen fill the shelves with high res polycarbonate media.

The two laptops that died were both Apple Macbooks, a Samsung went the same way, too.

My new CD player (a budget NAD model that is well-rated by Stereophile) is less than a week old and has a fault - a clicking sound when playing some discs, noticeable underneath quiet music and sometimes extraordinarily loud. The in-built obsolescence on this one seems to have operated at warp speed.

Forgive my ignorance, but what's a 'red book cd'?

And can you hear a difference between a standard and super-audio CD?

[richardfinegold]

The two laptops that died were both Apple Macbooks, a Samsung went the same way, too.

My new CD player (a budget NAD model that is well-rated by Stereophile) is less than a week old and has a fault - a clicking sound when playing some discs, noticeable underneath quiet music and sometimes extraordinarily loud. The in-built obsolescence on this one seems to have operated at warp speed.

Forgive my ignorance, but what's a 'red book cd'?

And can you hear a difference between a standard and super-audio CD?

NAD is known to have some reliability problems. It should be under warranty.
I had a Mac book fail as well, with virtually no warning.
Red Book is the term for standard CD recording, at 16 bit (or less, as early CDs were occassionally 14 bit) technology.
SACD beats the pants off CD, Throp. It isn't subtle. Take your money back for your faulty NAD and spend a touch more and get a Universal Player. It will be the best move that you will ever make in Digital Audio.

[richardfinegold]

Crikey, I have a laptop that is 10 years old and still going strong (though I rarely use it these days). It is an IBM Thinkpad though.

You supplied the reason that it is still breathing. Actually I have a HP running XP that is going on 10 years, but we rarely use it.

[Sydney Grew]

Definition of terms:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_Stream_Digital

[Nick Armstrong]

It sounded like someone was eating potato chips on the radio intercom of a WW II bomber with flak exploding all around.

Perfectly expressing why I haven't given vinyl a second thought for 30 years.

Maybe Computer Audio won't be so bad after all.

Well I am 100% convinced, even without the sophisticated bells and whistles mentioned earlier in this thread which I've never heard of in fact. All I know is that the Mac Airport Express transformed things - and for instance I am now listening to a 320kbps mp3 recording of Rachmaninov's Rhapsody, of which I caught 5 minutes on the radio this morning, and was hooked... it's a 70s performance from a large and hard-to-find box but a kind friend has it, sent across the track I'm interested in, and now I have it singing through the big Hifi from my Macbook Pro via the Airport Ex. and sounding to my ears like a million dollars. I no longer want objects gathering dust... This is thrilling to me.

[teamsaint]

I 'm afraid that the sheer unreliability of computers, of all makes and types,(as mentioned by @noggo) would make me very wary of using them as a main source for music.
A hostage to fortune is the phrase that springs to mind. Technology has brought some great innovations in music listening, (listening to youtube videos via airplay on my new system is an example), but i dont see the day coming when I will rely on a PC based system, or streaming).and my vinyl and record player aren't going any time soon either.

Good thread though, you learn something every day .

Ps..when Cals mentioned airport express, i though he was on his way to gatwick at the start of his hols.

[Sydney Grew]

. . . Universal disc players . . . are now very inexpensive. Great sounding models can be had . . . for under $500. . . .

Starving little African: "Er . . . mumble mumble . . ."

[MrGongGong]

it's a 70s performance from a large and hard-to-find box but a kind friend has it, sent across the track I'm interested in, and now I have it singing through the big Hifi from my Macbook Pro via the Airport Ex. and sounding to my ears like a million dollars. [/COLOR]

Hope you have a "million dollars" when you have to represent yourself in court for being in possession of stolen goods
I thought file sharing of commercial products was (maybe technically ?) illegal

If it's from that time I'm sure if you sent us the players list Hornspeiler would be able to get in touch with some of them for you so you can give them their money

[PJPJ]

You would think, but there are claims, which I can't evaluate, the converting the PCM to DSD does improve things.
When I first heard about upsampling, I thought it was nonsense, but after my first upsampling dac seemed to bring out a wealth of detail from every standard CD that I played, I became a believer. Sometimes you have to go with what your ears hear regardless of how illogical it may seem.

1. Converting PCM to DSD adds high frequency noise which some say gives the effect of smoothing the sound.

2. Your new DAC may give a sound you prefer solely because it's different not because it upsamples.

[PJPJ]

Has anyone become an enthusiast for DSD downloads? I have many SACD (the sonic superiority of which is largely due to DSD......

1. The number of SACDs whose original recordings were made in DSD and which contain no element of PCM is very small.

You may think the sonic superiority of SACD is largely due to DSD but that doesn't necessarily make it true.

2. DSD downloads require your storing enormous files, and their cost is generally outrageous, even more outrageous than Linn's price for 24/96 PCM.

3. If there's a difference between the sounds of a recording made in DSD and in PCM this may be due entirely to the performance of the DAC.

You will find more about DSD via the Oppo at computeraudiophile.com. And more about gapless DSD playing, too.

Reasonably priced pure DSD recordings are becoming available from HDTT - worth investigating.

[PJPJ]

I'm listening to Pletnev/Tchaikovsky Pathetique on Pentatone as I write this. It couldn't be easier--pop the disc tray, put in the SACD, and High Resolution sound fills the room. No computers to torment me.

Well, exactly. Why anyone would want to fanny around with DSD files when the recording's on a disc with the 16 bit programme (for ripping to your ipod etc), and the hi-res stereo programme, and the hi-res surround programme...........

You would think stereo DSD (or PCM, for that matter) files would be much cheaper than the SACD disc with the three sets of files on it. They're not.

[richardfinegold]

1. The number of SACDs whose original recordings were made in DSD and which contain no element of PCM is very small.

You may think the sonic superiority of SACD is largely due to DSD but that doesn't necessarily make it true.

2. DSD downloads require your storing enormous files, and their cost is generally outrageous, even more outrageous than Linn's price for 24/96 PCM.

3. If there's a difference between the sounds of a recording made in DSD and in PCM this may be due entirely to the performance of the DAC.

You will find more about DSD via the Oppo at computeraudiophile.com. And more about gapless DSD playing, too.

Reasonably priced pure DSD recordings are becoming available from HDTT - worth investigating.

Your points are all valid, which was why I was wondering if anyone here has plunged into DSD downloads. I don't know if SACDs sound better due to DSD, but this has been stated as fact often in the audiophile press. It would be nice to test it.

[richardfinegold]

Well, exactly. Why anyone would want to fanny around with DSD files when the recording's on a disc with the 16 bit programme (for ripping to your ipod etc), and the hi-res stereo programme, and the hi-res surround programme...........

You would think stereo DSD (or PCM, for that matter) files would be much cheaper than the SACD disc with the three sets of files on it. They're not.

I have read claims that DSD downloads sound better than SACD because there is less jitter when the bits are read from a hard drive versus being pulled from a spinning disc. Again, I was just wondering if anyone here has actually tried the technology and has an opinion.

[richardfinegold]

Hope you have a "million dollars" when you have to represent yourself in court for being in possession of stolen goods
I thought file sharing of commercial products was (maybe technically ?) illegal

If it's from that time I'm sure if you sent us the players list Hornspeiler would be able to get in touch with some of them for you so you can give them their money

This comes up periodically but I still am confused. If cali's friend had burned the cd and mailed it to him, that isn't illegal...but sending him the track over the internet is....?

[MrGongGong]

This comes up periodically but I still am confused. If cali's friend had burned the cd and mailed it to him, that isn't illegal...but sending him the track over the internet is....?

I think (and I might not be right ?) burning a CD and giving it to someone else (I think the key part is "distributing" to someone else) IS illegal.
There is a difference between mechanical and other rights.
If you buy a CD you don't "OWN" the music on it in the same way that if you use a piece of paid for software you can't make copies and give them away to your mates or sell them.

I think one has to have personal ethics on these things.
I refused to let one of my children copy a CD of a mates band as £10 was a small price to pay and would go straight to the band.
Sadly (as with other walks of life) those who can afford to have their works protected in law don't really need the money in the first place BUT struggling composers and musicians do......