Proms 2014

[french frank]

I think there are some flaws in your assumptions, HG.

[Honoured Guest]

I think there are some flaws in your assumptions, HG.

Enlighten me tomorrow maybe?

[HARRIET HAVARD]

Here's a toon for you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsdGgFfapp8

What on earth do you mean by "something to say" ?

There's not much new music in the Proms so i'm not sure what your gripe is?

I'm looking forward to the Lachenmann weekend (well we can only hope )

You are kidding I guess. Unless music has something to say it is, at best merely "musak", at worse, merely noise.

[Beef Oven!]

You are kidding I guess. Unless music has something to say it is, at best merely "musak", at worse, merely noise.

A lot of good music and musicians have nothing to 'say' and have been saying it loud and long.

[MrGongGong]

You are kidding I guess. Unless music has something to say it is, at best merely "musak", at worse, merely noise.

What do you mean by "say" ?

Some music simply "says", "have a listen to this, it's fragile and beautiful and doesn't need a composer to impose a spurious meaning onto it"

(In an unexpected last minute change I did make it to the Lucier film which is worth finding and he answers this question wonderfully )

A lot of good music and musicians have nothing to 'say' and have been saying it loud and long.

BINGO


Also............

What do YOU mean by "noise"?

[Beef Oven!]

What do YOU mean by "noise"?

Not this...................?

[MrGongGong]

Noise

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPoqNeR3_UA

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The argument's becoming a little black and white.

To quote Minnie Beebe in A Room with a View, "How cross everybody is today."

[Beef Oven!]

The argument's becoming a little black and white.

To quote Minnie Beebe in A Room with a View, "How cross everybody is today."

No need to be patronising, there is no argument and nobody is cross.

[Flosshilde]

You are kidding I guess. Unless music has something to say it is, at best merely "musak", at worse, merely noise.

What does Mozart's Symphony no. 30 say?

& does it say it to you specifically, or to everyone that hears it?

[Honoured Guest]

Maybe HH means, by music with "something to say", music which engages the listener's full concentration to pay attention to the sounds in the air with the memory of those just heard and the anticipation of those to follow. As opposed to "muzak" which is composed so as not to be actively listened to, or background "noise" which isn't either composed or performed and isn't been made as "music" to be listened to.

However, HH admits that she is averse to "plink plank plonk" music because she personally cannot engage with it, although it does of course have "something to say" to people who are able to hear it.

[Beef Oven!]

Maybe HH means, by music with "something to say", music which engages the listener's full concentration to pay attention to the sounds in the air with the memory of those just heard and the anticipation of those to follow. As opposed to "muzak" which is composed so as not to be actively listened to, or background "noise" which isn't either composed or performed and isn't been made as "music" to be listened to.

However, HH admits that she is averse to "plink plank plonk" music because she personally cannot engage with it, although it does of course have "something to say" to people who are able to hear it.

Now I'm really confused. Not only do I not get the 'music/muzak/noise/sounds demarcations, but now there are questions as to whether things have been 'composed' or 'performed', or not, as the case may be!






.

[MrGongGong]

The argument's becoming a little black and white.

Argument ?
Where ?

Maybe HH means, by music with "something to say", music which engages the listener's full concentration to pay attention to the sounds in the air with the memory of those just heard and the anticipation of those to follow. As opposed to "muzak" which is composed so as not to be actively listened to, or background "noise" which isn't either composed or performed and isn't been made as "music" to be listened to.

Opinion masquerading as fact again methinks

Memory and anticipation are fine
but not always necessary

Are you suggesting that only music that has intentionally been made as "music" is worthy of attention?
What happens if (and this happens many times) something I listen to has been made for a completely different reason?
I gave a friend a CD of this for Christmas, he is a well known music academic, he loves it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Aj2QspPf7s

One of my favourite CDS

http://delaurenti.net/favorite/

one of my favourite labels

http://www.gruenrekorder.de/

and so on

[Flosshilde]

Opinion masquerading as fact again methinks

I think that's a little unfair to HG - I think he/she was simply suggesting what HH was thinking when she (or he?) said that music either has 'something to say' or is muzak (isn't that a trade name for the company that issues the stuff?).

But then what's commonly called 'muzak' (the stuff broadcast in supermarkets, airports, on your telephone, etc) did originally 'have something to say', whether it's by Vivaldi or Aretha Franklin, & becomes muzak through mis-use & repetition (does much of what's played on 'Breakfast' then qualify as muzak through repetition?)

[MrGongGong]

I think that's a little unfair to HG - I think he/she was simply suggesting what HH was thinking when she (or he?) said that music either has 'something to say' or is muzak (isn't that a trade name for the company that issues the stuff?).

But then what's commonly called 'muzak' (the stuff broadcast in supermarkets, airports, on your telephone, etc) did originally 'have something to say', whether it's by Vivaldi or Aretha Franklin, & becomes muzak through mis-use & repetition (does much of what's played on 'Breakfast' then qualify as muzak through repetition?)

Muzak comes from here

http://www.muzak.com/

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Elevator-Music-Surreal-Easy-listening-Moodsong/dp/0472089420

It is important to use the power of the internet to check facts a bit don't you think ?

Satie ?