Annoying advert for Schubert series....

[Don Petter]

Specially formulated for fly-away Apollinaire ...

[Nick Armstrong]

L'Orelei?

But sadly there's no need to invent anything: the adverts I caught this evening were for ...

The Schubert Salon

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01f503g

The idiocy of the presentation style was highlighted by the excellence of the actual content: Graham Johnson talking about and introducing songs in a manner that was wise, measured, inviting, informative...

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

What I can't understand is why they don't have a Radio 5- style drumbeat during the sickly adverts. If the plastic naivists want to be cool, surely this is the way to go.

[EdgeleyRob]

After the Elisabeth Leonskaja recital yesterday we were asked if we'd ever wondered what Chris Evans favourite Schubert piece was,and that we could find out after 10 pm.

Well, has anyone ever wondered what his favourite is ?

[hackneyvi]

Is that the cringe-making female with sing-song emphasis who sounds as if she is advertising a wonder new hair product, possibly with extra lanolin?

Are we talking about the woman with the young but deep-ish voice who's channelling the announcer of Masterchef?

I can't absolutely explain what about her diction so offends me but whatever words she speaks in that tone, all I hear is a sort of greasy self-importance from which I automatically retreat. The voice suggests to me a person I could look at in open horror without impacting on her consciousness at all.

It's a voice that stops me listening; the voice, I regret to say it, of a hawker.

Whether stationary or mobile, hawkers usually advertise by loud street cries or chants, and conduct banter with customers, so to attract attention and enhance sales.

[Cassander]

The Spirit of Schubert, here / only on Radio 3 (+ on-line etc, etc..)

Are we talking about the woman with the young but deep-ish voice who's channelling the announcer of Masterchef?

Why does this mantra need announced every 10 minutes? Do they think that the R3 audience lack short-term recall (but are still in full touch with the 1820s).
There's a vaguely surreal tone to the on-going chat groups, like someone's put something in the tea to disinhibit those who need enlivening (unlike Sean Rafferty and Suzie Klein, who need the opposing medication). They even managed to make this afternoon's analysis of FS's key modulations sound orgiastic.
Did I hear correctly , that announcers are being asked to plonk on the piano and listeners can request karayoke sing-along-a-Schubert to such amateur accompaniment? What's wrong with putting on a CD of Fischer-Dieskau or whoever and duetting, if you must? I can only remember some lines of a lied at best anyway. Then there's 'Franz is unwell' but not so much so that he can't tweet.
Aren't these marathons counter-productive? Even I'm getting weary of the impromptus, which I didn't think was possible.
Jeepers.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I think I'm the lucky one here. I haven't switched on Radio 3 since the mindless mush started. I'll return to Radio 3 (afternoons and evenings) after it's all over.

[Norfolk Born]

I think I'm the lucky one here. I haven't switched on Radio 3 since the mindless mush started. I'll return to Radio 3 (afternoons and evenings) after it's all over.

I listened to a grand total of 20 minutes (and that was last Sunday morning) before my worst fears were confirmed. Nothing I've read since then on the Forum has caused me to regret my decision not to waste further time looking for the odd golden nugget amidst all the dross.

[tijran]

I'm quite horrified but it seems to me that Radio Three is going through one of its periodic crises of confidence - and quite a bad one at that. 'Twitter', 'phone-ins' and the ongoing lowering of critical standards...why do some people think that Art must be made 'accessible'? Art exists for us to aspire to raise ourselves to its level; if it is dragged down to ours, what purpose does it serve?

[Mattbod]

@Norfolk Born: each to his own but I have appreciated the education this week has brought. It has been a journey and I have enjoyed it. Schubert has been one of the those composers that I have overlooked. This is the greatness of Radio 3: it can undertake a project like this that a commercial station never could. I can't listen to everything but the beauty of Iplayer lets me pick and choose :)

@@tijran: I don't think critical standards have been lowered at all. Listening to Graham Johnson, Imogen Cooper et all in the Schubert Salon has proved very enlightening to me. There is a difference between making music accessible and dumbing down. I believe that one should aspire to raise the awareness of people to the level of the art but I am not an intellectual snob. Having said that Radio 3 does itself no favours with these trite little jingle adverts. It is such things that drove me off Classic FM for good.

[rank_and_file]

tijran

Excellent first post - wish mine were as good

[french frank]

There is a difference between making music accessible and dumbing down.

But 'dumbing down' is a perception. It means: 'I can cope with - and want - something much more complex, more profound, more detailed, more beyond the usual, more demanding, more thought-provoking than what you're giving me.'

Making something 'accessible' implies adapting it for a different target audience so that it is easier for them to absorb, and it isn't intellectual snobbery to point out that one is not of that audience and that one wants something different.

The problem with the Schubertfest was that there were no clear signposts: a weekly programme about Schubert by Graham Johnson and friends would have stood out in the normal schedule as of outstanding quality and been something to follow. The jingles are there to act as a station/event ident for people who are tuning in randomly without no real idea of what's on. Their omnipresence gives the impression of an undifferentiated mass. Sandwiched between Schubert and Schubert, Graham Johnson and friends get lost.

[kernelbogey]

But 'dumbing down' is a perception. It means: 'I can cope with - and want - something much more complex, more profound, more detailed, more beyond the usual, more demanding, more thought-provoking than what you're giving me.'

Making something 'accessible' implies adapting it for a different target audience so that it is easier for them to absorb, and it isn't intellectual snobbery to point out that one is not of that audience and that one wants something different.[...]

I suggest that it's more than a perception: it's an expression of a value placed in 'something much more complex, more profound, more detailed, more beyond the usual' which has intrinsic cultural significance. Although we (on these boards) can be accused of conservative nostalgia, it is a longing (Sehnsucht!) for that value embodied in the style of the former station - comfortable with the expression of a profoundly affectionate, mildly academic love and respect for the music and its composers.

[hackneyvi]

But 'dumbing down' is a perception. It means: 'I can cope with - and want - something much more complex, more profound, more detailed, more beyond the usual, more demanding, more thought-provoking than what you're giving me.'

Making something 'accessible' implies adapting it for a different target audience so that it is easier for them to absorb, and it isn't intellectual snobbery to point out that one is not of that audience and that one wants something different.

The problem with the Schubertfest was that there were no clear signposts: a weekly programme about Schubert by Graham Johnson and friends would have stood out in the normal schedule as of outstanding quality and been something to follow. The jingles are there to act as a station/event ident for people who are tuning in randomly without no real idea of what's on. Their omnipresence gives the impression of an undifferentiated mass. Sandwiched between Schubert and Schubert, Graham Johnson and friends get lost.

I think 'dumbing down' means something more negative to me. It means the things that I can't cope with: I can't cope with chart shows, homogeny, chatter, repetitiousness, celebrity, ingratiation, vox pops, advertising.

At the same time, I think back to all those Horizon programmes I watched as a young man and failed to understand. No chance of me coming away overburdened with knowledge from Horizon now. The programme is comprehensible but isn't very stimulating because it goes on for so bloody long. It could achieve its end just as well by stating 3 facts about a subject 3 times and have the whole thing done with in 10 minutes.

I have a sense that dumbed down TV, radio or anything else is for people who aren't actually interested in anything. It's defeated the purpose of entire services for some of us and I no longer have a TV.

[MrGongGong]

..why do some people think that Art must be made 'accessible'? Art exists for us to aspire to raise ourselves to its level; if it is dragged down to ours, what purpose does it serve?

I think this confuses the idea of accessibility with simplifying for mass consumption , I would deliberately NOT use the phrase "dumbing down" as like "PC" it seems to be applied in such a scatter gun approach to be meaningless. Why confuse accessibility with "lowering" ? The primary school students I worked with in January where we were exploring the ideas and music of Xenakis seemed more than comfortable with this music without it being "lowered" so they could "understand" it. The rather wonderful Stephen Newbold chief executive of the BCMG has a great way of describing what they do as being available (i.e accessible) for anyone but not necessarily FOR everyone, some might experience it once and decide that it's not their thing , which is fine. Poorly delivered music in the name of access helps no one.