Caliban undergoes a sea change

[LMcD]

What makes the joke even funnier is that LvB writes the even more unlikely and even uglier RH before LH desynchronisation.

I spotted that.

[LMcD]

RE' #106: I'm lying, of course.

Is it any wonder I get lost trying to follow some of these discussions?

Talking of jokes ....it's always struck me as laughable that very few people know the correct translation of the German word 'Fachmann' when applied to patent law. The correct English term is of course 'one skilled in the art' - NOT 'specialist'. The French equivalent is 'homme du metier' (sorry, don't know how to do the accent).

Isn't it funny how different people find different things amusing?

[jayne lee wilson]

Indeed - and if a contemporary composer were to write for fortepiano he/she might indulge their fantasy to the maximum in exploring the said range. And of course there's nothing to stop anyone from recomposing Schubert in order to explore it either. But I'd prefer to hear (or for that matter write) a new piece for fortepiano, or to hear Schubert played with a sense of how Schubert might have imagined hearing it. Schubert sounds new when that kind of understanding is brought to bear on it.

God only knows what you'll make of What's Next Vivaldi?

Or for that matter, Tognetti and the ACO in the Brahms 3 and 4.....
.....watch out, mélomanes, we're coming to get you.....

"Plonger au fond du gouffre, Enfer ou Ciel, qu'importe?
Au fond du familier pour trouver du NOUVEAU!"

(Apologies to CB)

[LMcD]

God only knows what you'll make of What's Next Vivaldi?

Or for that matter, Tognetti and the ACO in the Brahms 3 and 4.....
.....watch out, mélomanes, we're coming to get you.....

"Plonger au fond du gouffre, Enfer ou Ciel, qu'importe?
Au fond du familier pour trouver du NOUVEAU!"

(Apologies to CB)

My thoughts exactly! Thank heavens all that time I spent trying to work out what was going on in Racine's dramas wasn't wasted.


(I wonder what Vivaldi wold have made of the Beach Boys' 'God Only Knows' - possibly a good subject for learned discussion? And would he have enjoyed The Four Seasons' style of singing?)

[Richard Barrett]

God only knows what you'll make of [I]What's Next Vivaldi?

I shall be viewing it from beyond the other end of a bargepole I think. As I say, I have no moral objection to rehashing old music, or writing pieces that are in one way or another parasitic on it, but personally prefer the idea of people taking the challenge to write something new. To me that's more true to a tradition that has always been evolving.

[french frank]

"Plonger au fond du gouffre, Enfer ou Ciel, qu'importe?
Au fond du familier pour trouver du NOUVEAU!"

(Apologies to CB)

Yes, the poet is calling for death, isn't he? As for 'the new': some challenges one person relishes, another thinks it not worth the candle (bit like bungee jumping, perhaps?). Koch's D958 is on YouTube. I liked the sound of the instrument but 'mannered' seemed a good word for the style of playing. Just a matter of taste.

[cloughie]

My thoughts exactly! Thank heavens all that time I spent trying to work out what was going on in Racine's dramas wasn't wasted.


(I wonder what Vivaldi wold have made of the Beach Boys' 'God Only Knows' - possibly a good subject for learned discussion? And would he have enjoyed The Four Seasons' style of singing?)

Particularly Opus 17, which is not 100% away from baroque, or would Cole Porter have liked their ‘I’ve got you under my skin’ . Apart from Frankie Valli’s vocal the musical genii behind the Four Seasons were the two Bobs, Gaudio and Crewe.

Back to the Beach Boys - what would JSB have made of ‘Lovely Lynda’ which was a straight lift of ‘Jesu Joy’!

[Dave2002]

It's one frequently referred to in commentary as being a sly dig at the fashion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_...16_(Beethoven)

But what do we know of "the fashion", or styles of playing, in Beethoven's time? Is the commentary you refer to more modern, or were there accounts written by Beethoven's contemporaries?

Also - I like the reference to horses - "manerisms"

[Bryn]

But what do we know of "the fashion", or styles of playing, in Beethoven's time? Is the commentary you refer to more modern, or were there accounts written by Beethoven's contemporaries?

Also - I like the reference to horses - "manerisms"

Neigh, neigh, 'twas marely a typo.

As to what is known about the styles of playing in Beethoven's time, Carl Czerny, pupil and friend of Beethoven, is a good starting point.

[Richard Barrett]

But what do we know of "the fashion", or styles of playing, in Beethoven's time?

Plenty.

[cloughie]

Plenty.

...and a bit more that people have made up!

[Richard Barrett]

...and a bit more that people have made up!

Yes, there are of course always questions of how documents are to be interpreted in the absence of actual recordings, but there are many bits of evidence here and there (apart from scores and written documents, there's the kinds of instruments preferred by particular composers, the acoustics of the spaces where their music was performed etc. etc.) which add up, thanks to the work of hundreds of scholars and performers around the world, into quite a comprehensive picture. Which of course one is free to ignore as desired!

[Bryn]

...and a bit more that people have made up!

Re Op. 31/1, contemporary reports are hard to find. Composed at a time that Beethoven was known more as a virtuoso pianist, much in competition with others of that ilk, than as a composer, it was originally published, along with Op. 31/2, in 1803, in an edition replete with so many errors that Beethoven was constrained to immediately negotiate a corrected reprint. Op. 31/1 and 31/2 were not joined by Op. 31/3 until 1805. None of the three was discussed in the Allgemeine musikalische Zeitung [AMZ], (cf. Clive Bennett, 1980), further indicating Beethoven's relative lack of fame as a composer at the time.

[LMcD]

Particularly Opus 17, which is not 100% away from baroque, or would Cole Porter have liked their ‘I’ve got you under my skin’ . Apart from Frankie Valli’s vocal the musical genii behind the Four Seasons were the two Bobs, Gaudio and Crewe.

Back to the Beach Boys - what would JSB have made of ‘Lovely Lynda’ which was a straight lift of ‘Jesu Joy’!

Have you read Johann Grabnitz von Shnitzbeutel's monogram (2nd edition, Flitterwochen Press, Braunschweig, 1994) on Brian Wilson's unhealthy obsession with some of Telemann's less appealing personal habits - I think we all know why one of their albums is called Pet Sounds, don't we?

[cloughie]

Have you read Johann Grabnitz von Shnitzbeutel's monogram (2nd edition, Flitterwochen Press, Braunschweig, 1994) on Brian Wilson's unhealthy obsession with some of Telemann's less appealing personal habits - I think we all know why one of their albums is called Pet Sounds, don't we?

Yes but it was a superb opus the quality of which he never, through alleged substance abuse and mental health issues never got anywhere near achieving ever again!