Parliamentary Inquiry: CFM lets rip

[gurnemanz]

I have spent as much time as anyone on here commenting on Radio 3's current shortcomings. I am, however, wary of joining in the chorus too vehemently, knowing that criticism is often orchestrated by haters of public service broadcasting, as epitomised by the BBC, which they would like to abolish or privatise, i.e. people who are not "friends of Radio 3" at all. It is not surprising that radio stations during the day have to make some concession to the fact that many people are listening while not able to concentrate properly on the content (driving a car, for example). I can remember when the Third Programme did not even broadcast during the day. The German equivalents I know, such as MDR and Bayern Klassik, include traffic updates, news and weather on the hour and much talk and a fair sprinkling of non-classical music.

I have read the CFM contribution referred to, which contains many valid points. They make their case very effectively but it is no surprise to me that CFM would like to retain its monopoly of bland, low grade classical entertainment. I am neither a heavy intellectual nor a trained musician or musicologist, but I am a fanatical listener to classical music with a ludicrous 5000 CDs on my shelves. I also do like to be challenged – but not all day, every day. Every day Radio 3 plays dozens of pieces with which I am unfamiliar, if I am inclined to listen.

When Radio 3 is awful, I simply turn it off. There are enough alternatives. I have, however, spoken to quite a few people I know, who are not morons, who do actually like the morning stuff that we round here condemn. To my dismay, on one occasion, I heard the name of a friend of mine read out because she had won the musical brainteaser. Some people do actually seem to like that kind of thing, but even when it dumbs down, Radio 3 seldom becomes as insufferable as Classic FM, which I cannot listen to for more than five minutes.

I suppose we need both a cultural channel and a wall-to-wall classical music station, such as Rai 5 via satellite which I tune in to a lot.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

While agreeing absolutely with CFM's assessment of the direction taken by R3, I abhor the constant references to marketplace competitiveness as the basis of their argument.

Why has public broadcasting become such an unpopular concept in the UK? How come so many other European countries cope quite happily with both publicly-funded and commercial broadcasting without all this agro? Why is NPR so successful in the US, the home of commercialism? Surely any civilised country is duty bound to support and promote the arts and perpetuate its cultural heritage? R3's shift, supported by (and at the behest of) the BBC Trust is nothing short of a national embarrassment for the UK.

Excellent post, DubJim. There seems to be a feeling in English-speaking cultures at least that "the Arts" are nothing more than a twig of the "Entertainment" business with an inflated opinion of itself. The word "culture" has caused so many to reach for thier guns that little is left of it - catering for minority tastes, providing educational encounters, the challenging and intellectually/emotionally confrontational, not seeking to chase the biggest audiences - all have been tarred and feathered with accusations of "un/anti-democratic" "elitism".

Not just the Arts, of course: the Sciences and Humanities similarly have to be presented in "gee-whizz" ways at best, and "Science" is regarded with deep suspicion by huge sections of the population. The toxic partnership of "immediate pleasure" and "huge profit" is enfeebling the whole notion of PBS - and those of us who care for it are increasingly having to turn to "amateur" (in the sense of "doing it for love, not money") online resources - youTube, blogs, online Radio stations, the Forum ...

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

i do think it is wise to be careful in that our enemy's enemy may be no friend of ours ... the Mail can always be relied upon to excoriate AUnt, but it has long harboured a commercial interest in radio ...

i do feel that the real comparison is with NPR; certainly from a Jazz perspective , alas i do feel that i am too ignorant of public service arts broadcasting in France Germany or Scandinavia to comment on their arts programming .....

i think that those who call for an unashamed ambition for public service arts broadcasting are right; my problem with R3 is that it has cut the time for serious programmes on the nature of music and its making; i would welcome far more drama and poetry [and less Wagner ]

good that someone else is saying what we feel though ...

[french frank]

What, I think, is not in dispute is that, whatever Radio 3 chooses to do by way of show biz guests, tweets, chat and banter, repetitious repertoire, THERE IS AN AUDIENCE FOR IT. That does not mean to say it is what Radio 3 should do. And there's no reason for us to keep quiet on the grounds that it's 'not as bad as Classic FM'. My brother has a BSc, MPhil and a PhD - he prefers Classic FM because it is more to his taste, so CFM isn't just for idiots either.

Nor should we accept that the service is just about 'playing music'; so as long as we hear a reasonable quantity of stuff that we like, that's good enough.

Speaking 13 years ago Mark Thompson described Radio 3 as a station 'of real seriousness'. In and out, perhaps; but less and less often. The BBC has a vast empire: it shouldn't be allowed to say that Radio 3 must serve new listeners who don't know much about classical music when it has a number of other services which could and should be doing exactly that - not cheapening what Radio 3 does. It is clearly invading CFM's territory and is, statutorily, prohibited from doing that by the BBC Charter.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

What, I think, is not in dispute is that, whatever Radio 3 chooses to do by way of show biz guests, tweets, chat and banter, repetitious repertoire, THERE IS AN AUDIENCE FOR IT. That does not mean to say it is what Radio 3 should do. And there's no reason for us to keep quiet on the grounds that it's 'not as bad as Classic FM'. My brother has a BSc, MPhil and a PhD - he prefers Classic FM because it is more to his taste, so CFM isn't just for idiots either.

Nor should we accept that the service is just about 'playing music'; so as long as we hear a reasonable quantity of stuff that we like, that's good enough.

Speaking 13 years ago Mark Thompson described Radio 3 as a station 'of real seriousness'. In and out, perhaps; but less and less often. The BBC has a vast empire: it shouldn't be allowed to say that Radio 3 must serve new listeners who don't know much about classical music when it has a number of other services which could and should be doing exactly that - not cheapening what Radio 3 does. It is clearly invading CFM's territory and is, statutorily, prohibited from doing that by the BBC Charter.

excellent points ff .... not just serious but also radical and indispensable [radical here is a non political attribute concerned with getting to the root issues in novel ways]

the fate of the young musician of the year contest illustrates the decline of R3 as well as the presentation of music on TV

it is mildy amusing to notice that the more the Thompson regime salaries take hold, the more BBC execs accuse critics like us of elitism; presumably they embrace populism and the dictatorship of the banal in their work whilst toddling off to Oxford for evensong and dinner

[DracoM]

What, I think, is not in dispute is that, whatever Radio 3 chooses to do by way of show biz guests, tweets, chat and banter, repetitious repertoire, THERE IS AN AUDIENCE FOR IT. That does not mean to say it is what Radio 3 should do. And there's no reason for us to keep quiet on the grounds that it's 'not as bad as Classic FM'. My brother has a BSc, MPhil and a PhD - he prefers Classic FM because it is more to his taste, so CFM isn't just for idiots either.

Nor should we accept that the service is just about 'playing music'; so as long as we hear a reasonable quantity of stuff that we like, that's good enough.

Speaking 13 years ago Mark Thompson described Radio 3 as a station 'of real seriousness'. In and out, perhaps; but less and less often. The BBC has a vast empire: it shouldn't be allowed to say that Radio 3 must serve new listeners who don't know much about classical music when it has a number of other services which could and should be doing exactly that - not cheapening what Radio 3 does. It is clearly invading CFM's territory and is, statutorily, prohibited from doing that by the BBC Charter.

Absolutely endorsed.

And, btw, akum Calum Da jabo, attending evensong is elitist only in the sense that unfortunately these days, with the music of usually a very high standard and excellently performed, it might be considered as elite music-making i.e. top quality music-making.

[Don Petter]

No-one has yet commented on my query about the text.

Are others not seeing this?

http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee507/Don_Petter/CFMtext_zps206eaacd.jpg

[jean]

No, except in your link. It's fine in the original one.

[Don Petter]

No, except in your link. It's fine in the original one.

Hmm. Thanks. Browser or settings, I suppose, though, as they say, 'it's never happened before'. I'm inclined not to chase it. Don't know why I've been so honoured.

PS Anyone got a copy of the Rosetta Stone?

[vinteuil]

Hmm. Thanks. Browser or settings, I suppose, though, as they say, 'it's never happened before'. I'm inclined not to chase it. Don't know why I've been so honoured.

PS Anyone got a copy of the Rosetta Stone?

... like Don P, I too have the paragraphs in hieroglyphs and in Greek letters. But they are easily decoded. When I 'copy' the hieroglyph (wingdings?) text it appears in English in the google box at the top of my screen - I presume if you copy & paste the text and change the font to a normal one the entire text will appear. The "Greek" text is just a letter-by-letter transliteration from the English.

Most weird...

[french frank]

Not to put too fine a point on it and in case some people couldn't decipher the original link, Classic FM commissioned a YouGov poll of Radio 3 listeners (the rats!!!), and these were the results:

WHAT DO RADIO 3 LISTENERS SAY?

Better to understand the views of BBC Radio 3’s listeners, Classic FM commissioned YouGov to undertake research with a panel of 1,086 Radio 3 listeners at the end of March 2012.

YouGov notes that there are clear indications in this research that

“...some listeners perceive that Radio 3 is becoming less specialised in its output and on occasion may be seen as imitating the output of other stations such as Classic FM.”

YouGov adds:

“Among those dissatisfied with Radio 3, there appears to be a perception that presenters now try to cater for an audience with less sophisticated tastes and no longer try as hard to intellectually challenge the audience.”

Radio 3’s remit is intended to extend far beyond being only a classical music station (unlike Classic FM, which only broadcasts classical music). However, the researchers comment that:

“Few listeners associate Radio 3 with representing jazz, drama and religion well as part of its overall remit i.e. this is the majority perception of where Radio 3 currently falls short. This implies that by over representing classical music, other, non-classical music based outputs are being under represented.”

Only 58% of Radio 3’s listeners regard the station as being “original” and just 48% say that it is “innovative”.

There is clear evidence in the research that Radio 3’s listeners believe that their station has recently moved closer to the output of Classic FM, thereby reducing the choice of styles of classical music radio stations available to them:

“Radio 3 listeners enjoy the notion that this radio station specialises in classical music and appeals to a niche group of listeners, further echoed by close to 3 in 10 (29%) saying that the reason for their dissatisfaction is the dumbing down of content, trying to be more like Classic FM and playing more well-known music.”

When YouGov questioned Radio 3 listeners specifically about the station’s programming output, clear areas of dissatisfaction become apparent:

“Around 1 in 4 listeners perceive that Radio 3 does not play enough specialist/rare recordings of classical music (24%) or live classical music concerts (24%).”

“22% of listeners think that there has been a decline in the amount of less well known classical music that is played now compared to 12 months ago, with this increasing to 56% of dissatisfied listeners. 39% of listeners think that there is more popular classical music being played (59% among those that claim that they will listen to less over the next 12 months and 64% among dissatisfied listeners), indicating a potential cause of their dissatisfaction.”

“A quarter of all listeners have said that they have noticed a change to the frequency with which popular classics are played on Radio 3. Of these listeners, 86% claim that they are playing more popular classical music on Radio 3.”

“Amongst those less satisfied with Radio 3 now compared to 12 months ago, 56% say that the quality of less well known classical music is lower compared to 12 months ago, while 44% think that the quality of popular classical music is lower compared to 12 months ago and 23% think the quality for contemporary classical music is lower.”

YouGov also looked at Radio 3 listeners’ perceptions of the station’s non-classical music output – an important part of the station’s remit. 50% of listeners feel that Radio 3 is representing Religion poorly; 38% say feel that the station is representing Drama poorly; 31% believe that Jazz is represented poorly; 26% believe that World Music is represented poorly; and 19% believe that Arts and Ideas are represented poorly.

When it comes to the amount of non-classical music broadcast on Radio 3, 27% of listeners feel not enough Jazz is being played; 22% of listeners feel not enough World Music is being played; 21% believe not enough Drama is being broadcast; 20% believe not enough Literature is featured and 19% believe that there is not enough Educational Content on the station.

As part of YouGov’s research into the BBC Radio 3 audience carried out in March 2012, the station’s listeners were offered the opportunity to make open-ended observations about the station’s programming. Many of these centred on the perception that BBC Radio 3’s output had moved towards that of its commercial competitor:

“In trying to appeal more to the traditional Classic FM listener, you’re alienating a lot of your dedicated listeners. I know a lot of people who used to listen to Radio 3 through most of the day and now regularly turn it off when it becomes too populist.”

“Stop trying to copy other radio stations. Radio 3 stood out from the rest a few years ago. Why do you feel the need to imitate Classic FM or Radio 2? I deliberately choose Radio 3 over Classic FM. Stop worrying about ratings and put the money into what you do best.”

“Go back to being a station specialising in authoritative ways of playing and talking about classical music, and stop all the dumbing down.”

“More excerpts rather than fuller pieces. Radio 3 should not try to become Classic FM.”

[An explosive point? If the proposal was to cut the classical music output and increase that of the other areas? I imagine that might be unpopular with those who use the station as a kind of juke-box, churning ou 'Anything as long as it's classical'; I would personally back a reduction in an exchange for a dramatic improvement in the content and presentation of the classical content.]

[DracoM]

No-one has yet commented on my query about the text.

Are others not seeing this?

http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/...ps206eaacd.jpg

Yup - weird!!

[Don Petter]

... like Don P, I too have the paragraphs in hieroglyphs and in Greek letters. But they are easily decoded. When I 'copy' the hieroglyph (wingdings?) text it appears in English in the google box at the top of my screen - I presume if you copy & paste the text and change the font to a normal one the entire text will appear. The "Greek" text is just a letter-by-letter transliteration from the English.

Most weird...

Glad it's not just me.

Don't think I've got a 'Google box', but, in fact, if you just copy the text and paste it into Word it all looks as it should, paragraphs, italics, all correct.

[DracoM]

The truly sad, sad thing is that not all that long ago, the very presenters eg Swain, Shea, Handley, McGregor, Cowan,who are now little more than DJs WERE presenting and behaving as if analytic, informed comment and info WAS part of their remit. CD Review at its best is largely exempt from this criticism at the moment.

Nowadays, spaces between 'tracks' [sic] partic in the Breakfast programme are filled by many of the newer presenters eg CBH, SMP, KD with excited gush about tweets, emails. Why the listening public might be supposed to find such tweets etc informative or adding anything to the contextualisation of the music totally eludes me. Nevertheless, those tweets / emails NEVER [ apparently? ] as read out on air include cogent dismissal or criticism of the content or conduct of programmes. Are they saying that the golly gee gush are all the tweets they get?

It is not as if the core of the current presentational team at R3 cannot do it, more that they have had the remit to do it reduced or axed. They are being under-used, and demeaned IMO. It always amazes me that some of them stay to carry on the shoddy work when they know full well what they CAN do. Yes, money / job, I suppose. So sad.

[Frances_iom]

Glad it's not just me.

Don't think I've got a 'Google box', but, in fact, if you just copy the text and past it into Word it all looks as it should, paragraphs, italics, all correct.

it's one more example of a stupid lockin to a proprietary format - this time to Mickeysoft word - the text has been converted to html (my guess by MS conversion within Word judging from the poor quality of the HTML) - you may be on a Mac which probably hasn't got the desired font and the substitute has the Greek characters