January schedule changes

[french frank]

Would you prefer more serious programmes on Radio 3, french frank?

Yes - as in 'a larger number'. I might also say some more humour would be welcome, but I won't because that will turn out to be a load of BBC comedians being shipped in to perform a Radio 2 comedy show. I mean just ordinary presenters who have a fine, dry wit - like Mr Skelly.

The difficulty with considering the Radio 3 listeners a 'subset of Radio 4' is, when you think of the implications, that Radio 3 listeners are [all] Radio 4 listeners who sometimes listen to Radio 3 as well. Whereas they may be invariable Radio 3 listeners who listen now and then to Radio 4. If the former, then it's fine to put music speech programmes on Radio 4 because the subset will tune in for them. But if they are Radio 3 listeners who never listen to Radio 4 and are not accustomed to the schedules, they (who are likely to be the most interested audience) will miss them. I have seen comments from Radio 4 listeners which suggest they resent music programmes being on Radio 4 ... But the BBC wields a bludgeon and has less and less time for minorities.

Loved their headline that 'Doctor Who change tops TV viewing' this year when it turns out to be for the five-minute 'moment', not the whole show.

[teamsaint]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/assets/files/pdf/regulatory_framework/service_licences/service_reviews/radio_347/radio_347_final.pdf

just in case anybody is interested in seeing for themselves, in black and white, the "subset" nonsense. (P28)

[french frank]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/assets..._347_final.pdf

just in case anybody is interested in seeing for themselves, in black and white, the "subset" nonsense. (P28)

Page 28. It leaves a mere half a million who don't listen to Radio 4 and therefore 'effectively' don't exist as an audience.

[teamsaint]

Page 28. It leaves a mere half a million who don't listen to Radio 4 and therefore 'effectively' don't exist as an audience.

we really need to find a computer whizz who can show us how to do Venn Diagrams on the board.

My guess would be that a substantial number of R3 listeners also tune in to local radio from time to time. (sport, news, music even occasionally).
A measurable number also probably tune in to R2 specialist music shows, sounds of the sixties, Simon Mayo,Mark kermode and the film reviews and so on. Probably also true that a decent chunk of the R4 listening by" R3 listeners" is Test Match Special, and the 3 (?) main R4 news bulletins.

[french frank]

we really need to find a computer whizz who can show us how to do Venn Diagrams on the board.

I suppose there is no such thing as a 'Radio 3 audience'. You can have the 'Radio 3 audience' for a specific programme (usually, or on one occasion).

But people who listen to Radio 3, at one time or another, may be solely Late Junction listeners or solely jazz listeners or solely Breakfast listeners or solely concert listeners. They have nothing in common, in terms of their musical requirements, other than that Radio 3 has chosen to broadcast their favourite type of programme within its schedule. If they put The Archers on Radio 3 it would attract the Archers listeners who would coalesce with 'the Radio 3 audience'. That phrase is both misleading and meaningless.

[pilamenon]

Radio 3 is my default station, and generally in my view still a good one, but I will shift to Radio 2 or Radio 4 if I don't like what's on.

The changes mentioned at the top of this thread don't seem to me to illustrate the demise of the network as iterated lower down.

Discovering Music was a good concept in its original format, but I won't be sorry to see the back of the latest incarnation as an interval filler. Not only was it insubstantial as analysis, but repeated extracts of well known bits of the work we were about to hear in full drove me to switch off and give up on the second half. I think Stephen Johnson was over-exposed on Radio 3 and a break from his commentary is welcome. Even better if concert presenters were given licence to incorporate more analysis in their introductions to works and fewer meaningless tittle-tattle interviews with the performers, but some chance of that!

Night Waves was never a great favourite of mine, and if Free Thinking means more substantial features and less of a magazine format, I'm all in favour of that change.

As for the language in which axed programmes are announced, every radio and TV station does it that way, seldom if ever admitting that something was a mistake or was unpopular, so Radio 3 is no different from the media crowd in that respect.

Generally, I'm happy with the station as it is now, and long ago accepted that a reversion to the old Third Programme style is not going to happen. The suggestion of a separate Radio 3 Extra station for achive material is an excellent one - but presumably money cannot be found for that.

I do, however, echo the concerns about the creeping share of former Radio 2 fare - film soundtracks, Hollywood and so on. For example, putting the Hollywood Prom on Christmas night struck me as a insensitive slight to the core audience, just as putting the Urban Prom in a prime time Saturday evening Prom slot did so in the summer. It is decisions like that that call into question the controller's loyalties. But I admire his increased commitment to live music in the evenings, the reinvigoration of long-standing slots like In Tune, and the imaginative Christmas programming of the last few years.

[french frank]

Discovering Music was a good concept in its original format, but I won't be sorry to see the back of the latest incarnation as an interval filler. Not only was it insubstantial as analysis, but repeated extracts of well known bits of the work we were about to hear in full drove me to switch off and give up on the second half. I think Stephen Johnson was over-exposed on Radio 3 and a break from his commentary is welcome. Even better if concert presenters were given licence to incorporate more analysis in their introductions to works and fewer meaningless tittle-tattle interviews with the performers, but some chance of that!

But the end result is that we don't have either format of Discovering Music. It sounds as if what is planned is indeed the 'meaningless tittle-tattle interiews with performers'!

The suggestion of a separate Radio 3 Extra station for achive material is an excellent one - but presumably money cannot be found for that.

Money certainly could be found for it, given that 4 Extra cost £4m last year and BBC One cost over a billion. Radio 4 itself cost £91m. But a digital station for Radio 3 is not a priority. Stephen Johnson may well strike you as being overexposed if you aren't keen on him. But compared with, say, Sean Rafferty, he's merely an occasional guest presenter.

I do, however, echo the concerns about the creeping share of former Radio 2 fare - film soundtracks, Hollywood and so on. For example, putting the Hollywood Prom on Christmas night struck me as a insensitive slight to the core audience, just as putting the Urban Prom in a prime time Saturday evening Prom slot did so in the summer. It is decisions like that that call into question the controller's loyalties.

Loyalties, priorities - call it what you like. If you want to lure Radio 2 listeners (or any other listeners) over to Radio 3, you put the programmes on at the most popular times - peak times, holiday times - because that's when they'll be most likely to want to listen. This is the same strategy which put 7 hours of Late Junction on in the evenings and no classical music after 9.30pm some years back. The priority becomes pulling in new listeners, not catering for the 'core audience'. This is why Breakfast and Essential Classics take up the most popular time of the radio listening day.

[vinteuil]

If you want to lure Radio 2 listeners (or any other listeners) over to Radio 3...

... if Controller Radio 3 is wanting to "lure Radio 2 listeners" - what does Controller Radio 2 think / say ? Surely she / he can't be happy to have listeners poached by a sibling station?

[french frank]

... if Controller Radio 3 is wanting to "lure Radio 2 listeners" - what does Controller Radio 2 think / say ? Surely she / he can't be happy to have listeners poached by a sibling station?

Radio 2 gets 13m-15m listeners a week - more than any other station in the UK. What it should be doing, from a PSB angle, is broadcasting more programmes like the ones Radio 3 is putting on for R2 listeners. R2 won't be similarly obliging by putting on such programmes 'at peak times and holidays' because they will get smaller audiences, and - oh horror - it might end up with only 12m listeners. And the press will say, 'R2 loses 2 million listeners this quarter'. Goodness knows how many new listeners Radio 3 thinks it will attract. But not much sign of success yet.

[french frank]

I understand your point that, in a sense, one cannot be said to have completely retained quality if one has reduced the quantity of concerts / events. But I think it's a semantic point and that the actual strategy is to safeguard the quality of each of a reduced quantity of concerts / events. It's similar to the Arts Councils' talk of funding excellence - fund fewer better. I know this raises hackles but that's the strategy isn't it? If you follow the other path of maintaining the quantity of live and specially recorded music and drama, but with a reduced budget, then the output is compromised and loses its distinctiveness which is the BBC's principal purpose.

I missed this post - sorry. Yes, I agree, partly. The matter of reducing 'quality' comes with what you replace the reduced programming with; if you drop one programme yopu do have to replace it with something else. Not all 'quality' costs money - just as you can have very expensive rubbish.

As a recent jazz critic said of the BBC's craze for interactivity (on radio) with texts, tweets and phone-ins, it's 'simply a substitute for having something to say'. When will BBC television news invite viewers to text or tweet their comments about every news item?

To me, a lack of quality has come with the move from individually produced programmes, with a particular focus, to a day-in, day-out routine of two or three hour programmes which consist of compiling a playlist, and with near nil informative presentation.