Politics & Current Affairs board

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  • aeolium
    Full Member
    • Nov 2010
    • 3992

    #46
    One suggestion would be to PM all members (including those not currently posting) to canvas their opinions. Limit threads to Radio 3 programme and musically related subjects, delete personally abusive posts, and see what happens. It may well be that we will see very different names appearing on the threads than some of those who currently predominate, but would that necessarily be a bad thing?
    Possibly not, but it does seem to resemble R3's approach of trying to get rid of the old audience that used to listen a lot to bring in a new one. There's no clear evidence that R3 has succeeded in the latter, and I'm not sure that your suggestion would be any more successful.

    I think the further ghettoisation of political discussions will create its own problems. In many areas including musical ones it is quite hard to separate out the politics. For instance, the decisions about R3 programming and presentational style are to me essentially political ones, not artistic or aesthetic. They are to do with a conscious political move by BBC executives to respond to challenges from enemies in the press and government about elitism and accessibility. The cuts in BBC budgets, particularly affecting R3, are the result of political processes, essentially an imposition in the license fee settlement by this government as part of its overall austerity programme - which in turn is the result of the political and economic crisis presented by the worst recession possibly since the C19. So does that mean we can complain about the cuts in the R3 budget which is simply the immediate manifestation of a much deeper problem, but not the causes of that? And of course that austerity programme affects many aspects of arts funding and musical education, library closures, the demise of orchestras etc - is that not to be discussed? What about the issues about the interaction of music and politics for instance in the 'musical homophobia' thread? Can we discuss the latest Tchaikovsky symphony performance on Po3 but not the fact that a biographical film has been made in Russia that does not acknowledge Tchaikovsky's homosexuality? What about the recent comments about gender equality in the musical profession - another no-go area? If nothing else, the feeling that a subject touches on the political will probably put some people off raising it, which I think would be a rotten development.

    One of the best discussions on the old BBC boards (before they became neutered and over-moderated) was that on Science and Cheese. I don't remember everything about it and it may have ranged over several topics but I think the dominant one was whether it was possible to assign objective value to works of art. It was nothing to do with any R3 programme and was not prompted by anything on R3 AFAIK; it was heated and probably a few posts were modded; but it was an impassioned discussion about ideas which was entertaining and absorbing. I simply can't see it happening on the current forum, where there seems to be increasing hostility to any theoretical discussion. After all, as the forum moves more towards "light social" it is infra dig to raise any kind of controversial issue which may offend delicate sensibilities. In this, the forum may increasingly resemble the way the BBC has shunned tackling any difficult issues for fear of offending.

    For myself, I think the chatty, friendly exchanges that give the impression that the posters know each other well are just as likely to give the impression of a closed group and put new posters off - though it should be added that every time a new name is spotted putting its head above the parapet, someone will welcome it warmly.
    I quite agree.
    Last edited by aeolium; 09-09-13, 09:43.

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    • jean
      Late member
      • Nov 2010
      • 7100

      #47
      What I do find irritating sometimes is when I make a substantial and absolutely on-topic post, as I did with no. #224 here, and it takes another 8 needling and personal posts before anyone comments on mine.

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      • doversoul1
        Ex Member
        • Dec 2010
        • 7132

        #48
        Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
        If you don't like to read cyclic arguments about men in frocks or women conductors there's a simple solution
        don't read them !
        Yes, it is a simple solution to us common members to whom this forum is all play and no work. If ff and others who actually do work in order to keep this forum going did the same, where would we be?

        I think it is a good idea to hide away the Politics etc. Board, at least for the time being to calm things down, and in the meantime, I think it may be a good idea if we try extra hard to agree to disagree. As ff mentioned somewhere that once the thread become a campaign, in other words one person or a group trying to persuade others (this is not the same as exchanging different views), it has no place on this forum. This is not an online form of a Speaker’s Corner.

        I think each of us should share some sense of responsibility for managing the Forum.

        Comment

        • ferneyhoughgeliebte
          Gone fishin'
          • Sep 2011
          • 30163

          #49
          Originally posted by jean View Post
          What I do find irritating sometimes is when I make a substantial and absolutely on-topic post, as I did with no. #224 here, and it takes another 8 needling and personal posts before anyone comments on mine.
          This is inevitable, I think, jean - people come onto the Forum at different times and respond to posts as they encounter them. The needles respond to what's been said before any "substantial and on-topic" comments.
          [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

          Comment

          • ahinton
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 16123

            #50
            Originally posted by jean View Post
            No I wouldn't want that. I wouldn't want the use of you to be banned, as Syd suggests nor all our posts to aspire to the status of objective reports. But perhaps there should not be too much personal history in such exchanges?

            Perhaps ahinton's agreeing with Mr Pee would be more welcoming to comments by other people if neither of them reflected on how rare such agreement was?
            It might seem to be a fair point but for the fact that I had and have no wish or intention to appear to over-egg that particular pudding; indeed, the sole reason for my even mentioning it was to point out that there are several members who who might well disagree with others from time to time on various issues discussed on this forum but who, broadly speaking, sing with one voice over this one and, for all that it's not my place to speak for Mr Pee, I imagine that he would see this in pretty much the same way.

            I also agree that this decision might risk putting into question the Ideas & theory: Political, ethical, religious, scientific, musical, artistic discussion section - or at the very least it might raise queries as to why it has not similarly been moved, especially given its subtitular reference to "political, ethical, religious"...

            Comment

            • Pabmusic
              Full Member
              • May 2011
              • 5537

              #51
              Originally posted by doversoul View Post
              ...I think it is a good idea to hide away the Politics etc. Board, at least for the time being to calm things down...
              I'm sorry, but what does 'till things calm down" actually mean?

              Comment

              • jean
                Late member
                • Nov 2010
                • 7100

                #52
                Originally posted by doversoul View Post
                ...As ff mentioned somewhere that once the thread become a campaign, in other words one person or a group trying to persuade others (this is not the same as exchanging different views), it has no place on this forum...
                Opinions vary as to what does or doesn't constiitute a campaign, of course.

                I'd just like to record here that the last time the specific topic of G** M******* was raised on a thread here, it was not raised by anyone 'campaigning' in favour of it.

                Comment

                • Russ

                  #53
                  I wasn't aware of the existence of the 'Diversions' forum before I read this thread. Am I correct in thinking:

                  - the Diversions forum and the P&CA forum are no longer visible in the forum structure on the current 'front page';

                  - new posts in those forums will no longer appear in a What's New listing?

                  For those interested in participating in such forums, I'm wondering whether there is any mileage in having an opt-in mechanism, either by a 'show other forums' tickbox or by a user-set cookie, that would reveal their existence.

                  Russ

                  Comment

                  • amateur51

                    #54
                    Originally posted by jean View Post
                    Opinions vary as to what does or doesn't constiitute a campaign, of course.
                    Indeed the recent discussion about the Testament issue of Mahler symphony no 7 with BPO/Gielen was a most successful sales campaign.

                    Comment

                    • french frank
                      Administrator/Moderator
                      • Feb 2007
                      • 30509

                      #55
                      Thanks for all the comments. For the moment am51 is right:

                      And right now I suspect she may be getting ready for the rather more important circus about to take place in Westminster that may determine the future of the BBC Trust.
                      Yes. What I may consider is putting a direct link in the sidebar (and hoping the general public doesn't notice it). I do have regular evidence that people read the forum but don't want to join in because of the squabbly discussions. Some members enjoy them hugely: my impression is that the majority of people don't.
                      It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                      Comment

                      • french frank
                        Administrator/Moderator
                        • Feb 2007
                        • 30509

                        #56
                        Originally posted by Russ View Post
                        I wasn't aware of the existence of the 'Diversions' forum before I read this thread.
                        This was created only for removing some of the most abusive sequences of posts from public view if they were diversions from the topic and disrupting discussion. Other off-topic posts might be just given a separate thread, to allow both topics to continue.

                        Am I correct in thinking:

                        - the Diversions forum and the P&CA forum are no longer visible in the forum structure on the current 'front page';

                        - new posts in those forums will no longer appear in a What's New listing?
                        Yes. One of the Diversions boards remains open for people to continue the fighting. The other is closed if it seems that no useful contributions are possible.

                        For those interested in participating in such forums, I'm wondering whether there is any mileage in having an opt-in mechanism, either by a 'show other forums' tickbox or by a user-set cookie, that would reveal their existence.
                        The sidebar link would partially cover that for regulars. There is no password, so only the url is necessary. I imagine people could 'subscribe' in the usual way and get updates.

                        If FoR3 were to give up, I would offer the forum to anyone who wanted to run it on another server. Then people could do as they wanted.
                        It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                        Comment

                        • MrGongGong
                          Full Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 18357

                          #57
                          Originally posted by eighthobstruction View Post
                          Bump....Politics and Current Affairs Board now found at http://www.for3.org/forums/forumdisp...urrent-Affairs
                          Thanks

                          how does one refresh it so that one can see new posts ?

                          (In the end it's FF's gig so even though some of us might disagree we could always set up another forum if we wanted , had time !)

                          Comment

                          • french frank
                            Administrator/Moderator
                            • Feb 2007
                            • 30509

                            #58
                            Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
                            (In the end it's FF's gig so even though some of us might disagree we could always set up another forum if we wanted , had time !)
                            It's not that it's "my" gig but is hosted by Friends of Radio 3 and we can hardly be expected to host anything that is considered not in the interests of FoR3 (I think many of the exchanges could well be described as 'bringing FoR3 into disrepute' since we are closely identified with everything that is said) . It would be very time-consuming (and bring cries of "censorship") if stupid insults were removed (I stress, very time-consuming, given the quantity of them).

                            People who come to the forum principally to discuss politics are on the wrong forum.
                            It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                            Comment

                            • aeolium
                              Full Member
                              • Nov 2010
                              • 3992

                              #59
                              Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
                              (In the end it's FF's gig so even though some of us might disagree we could always set up another forum if we wanted , had time !)
                              Agreed, and it's an infinitely better forum than the old BBC one in its dying days.

                              I'm sure a lot of the problems re the politics board (and elsewhere) would go away if people followed two precepts:
                              1) Don't insult or use ad hominem remarks about any other MBer. There is never, ever, a good reason for doing so (and it is a breach of house rules).
                              2) Recognise where a discussion is only being pursued by people taking irreconcilable positions which have been made clear. At that point an 'agree to disagree' ought to terminate the discussion.

                              [I admit that this second precept is very rarely followed on any forums, which is why some threads can go on to the crack of doom]

                              Comment

                              • MrGongGong
                                Full Member
                                • Nov 2010
                                • 18357

                                #60
                                Originally posted by french frank View Post

                                People who come to the forum principally to discuss politics are on the wrong forum.
                                Absolutely and I think you have booted more than one person who seemed to just want to do that

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