New season

[pureimagination]

I really find it hard when it comes to trying to define genres of music. Pigeon-holing and categorising is only really useful for simplification and perhaps your iPod/music streaming device or how you arrange your LP's/CD's. World music should mean any music from any part of the world but each will apply their own definition - some think of world music as that which is only played on traditional non western instruments, for others it means music from around the world that is based in influence from it's region of origin but incorporates instruments and styles from others including western. The danger of the first definition is that it can lead to a kind of cultural imperialism - keep it in it's place, don't let it broaden it's reach. The danger of the second is that you ignore the traditional and only promote what's new. This is probably true for many genres of music and I hope the point I'm trying to make is clear.

To french frank, I agree Whitacre is not Bach but sometimes you might want to listen to Whitacre and not Bach. And for those who've only heard Whitacre and on being introduced to Bach still prefer Whitacre (not MY viewpoint) then that's still okay isn't it? Populist pap is not a genre of music I have my CD"s filed under.

[Lat-Literal]

I really find it hard when it comes to trying to define genres of music. Pigeon-holing and categorising is only really useful for simplification and perhaps your iPod/music streaming device or how you arrange your LP's/CD's. World music should mean any music from any part of the world but each will apply their own definition - some think of world music as that which is only played on traditional non western instruments, for others it means music from around the world that is based in influence from it's region of origin but incorporates instruments and styles from others including western. The danger of the first definition is that it can lead to a kind of cultural imperialism - keep it in it's place, don't let it broaden it's reach. The danger of the second is that you ignore the traditional and only promote what's new. This is probably true for many genres of music and I hope the point I'm trying to make is clear.

To french frank, I agree Whitacre is not Bach but sometimes you might want to listen to Whitacre and not Bach. And for those who've only heard Whitacre and on being introduced to Bach still prefer Whitacre (not MY viewpoint) then that's still okay isn't it? Populist pap is not a genre of music I have my CD"s filed under.

I am clear about your first point.

It sums up the dilemma for schedulers well.

[french frank]

Populist pap is not a genre of music I have my CD"s filed under.

Maybe you don't have any? You mentioned Katherine Jenkins, Russell Watson and André Rieu. In my book, 'populist pap' refers to albums/performances by such as the above who despite, within their performance categories (mezzo soprano, tenor, conductor), not being very good, nevertheless sell millions of albums to a broad public which doesn't bother with recordings by the very greatest of performers within those categories (mezzos/tenors/conductors) who sell far fewer.

Not only do many such listeners prefer popular crossover material, they grow angry if anyone suggests they aren't listening to 'opera' or 'classical (tbd) music'; nor do they wish to investigate any further ('Those who bought this album by André Rieu also bought 307 other albums by André Rieu'). If you attract listeners to Radio 3 by playing Katherine Jenkins, Russell Watson and André Rieu, they will complain that there is hardly ever anything by the aforementioned Jenkins, Watson and Rieu. Janet Baker, Jonas Kaufmann or Semyon Bychkov will not do.

[Quarky]

Sorry to be boring, but Radio 3 does have a remit, as every one knows -

The remit of Radio 3 is to offer a mix of music and cultural programming in order to engage and entertain its audience. Around its core proposition of classical music, its speech-based programming should inform and educate the audience about music and culture. Jazz, world music, drama, the arts and ideas and religious programming should feature in its output.
The service should appeal to listeners of any age seeking to expand their cultural horizons through engagement with the world of music and the arts.

To which Tony Hall has added "creativity".

This clearly rules out "Classic FM-ification". I believe Classic FM broadcasts on 100.9 MHz, for those that prefer Eric Whitacre to Bach.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Not "boring" at all, Oddy - just a decent resumé of what R3 is (or should be) for.

[french frank]

The problem with that remit was that it was always so loosely drawn up that it was possible to include very many things that are at least questionable for Radio 3 to include. Right from the very first draft of that remit, about ten or so years ago, we objected that this allows management to 'argue' that anything it wants to do is allowable, part of the remit. No notice was taken of us (no change there, then ), but since then others have said the remit should be tightened up - precisely to establish the vaunted 'clear blue water' between R3 and CFM. It doesn't happen.

Anything can be 'demonstrated' to be superficially distinctive - but still be fundamentally the same in aspects that matter.

A prime villain, in my view, is also the BBC marketing department. They only know how to market the popular:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-34221286 (not just this story - scroll down to the 'More on this story' to see which Proms are pushed).

[doversoul1]

Ian Skelly’s New Programme

Ian Skelly introduces recordings made recently at some of Europe's leading international music festivals. In this first programme of his Sunday night series, tonight Ian presents Nelson Goerner playing Debussy in Geneva and a distinguished team of chamber musicians playing Chausson's seldom heard Piano Trio in Montpellier.

20 September
Rameau Excerpt from 'Les Fêtes d'Hébé ou Les Talens lyriques'
MusicAeterna Ensemble, Teodor Currentzis (director)
Debussy Twelve Preludes Bk. 1
Nelson Goerner (piano)
Chausson Piano Trio in G minor, op. 3
Philippe Cassard (piano), David Grimal (violin), Anne Gastinel (cello)
Rameau Overture to 'Naïs, opéra pour la Paix' (1749)
Rameau La Poule, from 'Nouvelles Suites de pièces de clavecin'
MusicAeterna Ensemble, Teodor Currentzis (director).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06br55r

Well…. It would have been good if we could have had one concert per programme even in a shorter version. This looks like four concerts picked & mixed to fill in the 90 minute slot. Still, we’ll see how the programme develops.

[pureimagination]

Okay there seems to be a consensus on some things. No pop [pap] artists, different from playing pop [as in popular] classical pieces/performers/composers, though not on heavy rotation. World music, yes, though not too commercial. Full length concerts, yes, live and complete where possible. Folk and field recordings, yes, to educate re their influence and yes entertain. Early music likewise. Jazz, yes, but now such a broad genre so hard to please all. Arts music likewise. Educational programmes, need to do better.
Radio 3's new season/schedule seems to go some way to fulfilling this (and if you disagree will anyone there listen anyway?) Perhaps some who frequent this forum need to rely a bit less on Radio 3 (there's still lots of good stuff on it) to meet their individual needs/preferences and to do a bit more searching around for other sources.
It is possible to listen to/support Radio 3 and seek out what they don't provide elsewhere.

[Quarky]

Is this something which has escaped your eagle-eye, french frank? From Hansard:

BBC Privatisation

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Mr Peter Bone, supported by Mr Philip Hollobone, Philip Davies, Mr Christopher Chope and Scott Mann, presented a Bill to make provision for the privatisation


29 Jun 2015 : Column 1230

of the British Broadcasting Corporation by providing shares in the Corporation to all licence fee payers.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 26 February, and to be printed (Bill 32).

[french frank]

Is this something which has escaped your eagle-eye, french frank?

It had indeed, because not much mention seems to have been made of it. I think:

it's the second attempt by Messrs Bone, Davies, Chope et al. to introduce such a Private Members' Bill.

For Bills starting in the Commons, there are five stages: First Reading (formal introduction - no debate), Second Reading, Committee Stage, Report Stage and Third Reading. It then passes to the Lords for the same five stages. Then amendments are considered. Finally it gets the Royal Assent. The limited time allowed for debate means that only a few PMBs get through.

[CallMePaul]

What is interesting is that there are many forms of non-western music that are assumed to be ancient and somehow "pure" which turn out to be much more recent than we would imagine. Gamelan Gong Kebyar is a good example, the most widely known style of Balinese gamelan was developed in the early 1900's.

Taarab from Zanzibar and nearby Swahili-speaking areas is another; it is an early C-20 fusion of African and Arabic musical styles with touches of Indian, Persian and European influence as well. It has gone on to develop a range of regional styles - Twarab from the Comoros is very different from Mombasa Taarab, for example, but the common ancestry is clear if you listen to both styles.

[vinteuil]

... that are assumed to be ancient and somehow "pure" which turn out to be much more recent than we would imagine...

... the gamelan example is a good one. The older I get, the more I learn that many apparently ancient and traditional things are actually recent inventions. All the 'ancient Scottish' traditions dreamt up by Walter Scott for the visit of George IV ; the 'invention' of much court and coronation flummery by George V ; - and last week I found out that ciabatta was invented... in 1982.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciabatta

.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0089W2I1U