New season

[Andrew Slater]

With a push of the swings and a spin of the roundabouts, the Saturday lunchtime early music concert has been moved to late on Sunday night, and nobody appears to have noticed or complained! Woosh!!

[jayne lee wilson]

Lots of reasons. Does the sound from a computer match that of a good tuner/amp in a hi-fi setup?

AS Bryn says, R3 HDs (livestream or recorded on iPlayer) is superior to DAB, FM (or Freeview) - the one essential is an external DAC connected to the computer via USB Asynchronous (best) or Optical.

This is why I put the brief tech details after a Prom review "R3 HDs via JRMC"* etc. There are many ways of listening!

(*One of the software players I use, JRiver).

[french frank]

With a push of the swings and a spin of the roundabouts, the Saturday lunchtime early music concert has been moved to late on Sunday night, and nobody appears to have noticed or complained! Woosh!!

I had an email about that. I didn't realise that was a permanent early music slot. Meant to investigate.

[Andrew Slater]

Given the current mix of programmes, with the re-introduction of the opera to Saturday evenings, something had to give to avoid the intermittent shifting of JRR, so this seems as good as any option. (Dive for cover) I suppose the alternative might have been to move MM to Monday evenings rather than only repeating it then.

[johnb]

With freely available third party software it is also a simple matter to save the iPlayer's 320kbps AAC-LC offering in m4a or flv format, copy it to a USB memory stick or somesuch and play back through most modern Hi-Fi systems without using the computer's audio circuits.

I assume you mean saving the flv/aac, rather than using software such as Total Recorder or Audition etc. If so, that is currently the case but all the software of that kind that I know of depends on the Listen Again rtmp/AAC streams. The BBC will be turning those off at some point and replacing them with (Adobe) HDS streams which should seamlessly slot into the Radio Player. This is part of the BBC's migration to (Apple's) HLS, (Adobe's) HDS and the open standard MPEG-DASH (the live streams changed over earlier this year). I have read that a provisional date for the rtmp cut off was set for end of this year's Proms, dependent on whether there could be a seamless transition (at least as far as the BBC's web based player is concerned).

The BBC has an obligation to the rights holders and (from what I gather) is very much opposed to the use of the software currently used. Whether similar software will emerge for the new streams remains to be seen.

AS Bryn says, R3 HDs (livestream or recorded on iPlayer) is superior to DAB, FM (or Freeview) - the one essential is an external DAC connected to the computer via USB Asynchronous (best) or Optical.

Or the (sadly discontinued but still actively developed) Squeezebox Touch, say, with its server (Logitech Media Server) running on a PC, NAS or Server.

[Quarky]

Picking out the main points:


Not too sure what the jazz fans will think about JRR slipping from the Hallowed Hour.

Agreed with fhg that an earlier slot may prevent JRR being pushed around or cancelled by Opera.

However more than that, I find the 5 pm slot awkward, in that I am generally doing something else at that time, so I would welcome an earlier slot. Personally, I find JRR is one of those programmes that should be listened to "live" - it does not transpose that well into iPlayer.

[nersner]

Cotw

Would it not be a good idea to make the evening COTW a repeat of the previous week. Allowing listeners to avoid certain composers and to catch up with particularly recommended recordings.

[french frank]

Would it not be a good idea to make the evening COTW a repeat of the previous week. Allowing listeners to avoid certain composers and to catch up with particularly recommended recordings.

That's exactly what it used to be when the repeat was late night. Bizarrely, when the repeat was moved to the early evening slot which might well attract the same daytime listeners as the midday one, they repeated the same day's edition.

This point was put to the (previous) controller and the reply was that the 'Director of Audio and Music' (now known as Director of Radio) was of the view that "Composer" of the Week couldn't have two different composers in the same week. This was a) rubbish and b) unbelievable (in the literal sense). Obviously, if you're going to broadcast a repeat less than 7 hours after the original broadcast, it's going to eliminate one slot from people's listening since no one will want to, regularly, listen to the same 'documentary' twice every day.

Odders - that's reassuring. In fact I'm pretty sure the current controller is something of a jazz enthusiast.

[Lat-Literal]

It isn't clear to me how much extra money would be needed to replace the repeat of "Composer of the Week" with an unknown presenter playing a few other gramophone records. Not much I would suggest and it would be an ideal opportunity to have a programme geared either to British composers or late 19th Century/early 20th Century composers with elements of romanticism. Most other areas have specialist programming. They don't for some peculiar reason. "World Routes" was a big loss and it is fully understood that costs played a part there. However, I would like to see a programme which makes better use of the considerable world music archive and even very old folk music broadcasts. While I am not against "Late Junction", I do think that further scrutiny is needed there. What is it? Why is it? Does it need to be broadcast so many times each week? The crucial question is how many classical-music-only people does it draw in as it appears to be an exercise in holding everybody together. I very much doubt that it achieves it. I can cope with it as I hop across genres but I don't rave about it and would prefer a few more genre specific programmes - on the aforementioned world music archive and maybe one on electronica.

I don't think that they are doing terribly other than in the areas on which we all agree. What I do think is that there could be a bit more imagination at very little or no extra cost.

Footnote:

The argument that the WM archive is accessible on the internet could equally be applied to COTW. COTW is a good programme but the justification for a repeat of it is out-of-date.

[french frank]

it would be an ideal opportunity to have a programme geared either to British composers or late 19th Century/early 20th Century composers with elements of romanticism. Most other areas have specialist programming. They don't for some peculiar reason.

Partly because 19th/early 20th tend to dominate anyway, particularly in live concerts. I would be content with something of a better balance towards British composers in an overall scheme. And less of John Williams/Eric Whitacre & co.

While I am not against "Late Junction", I do think that further scrutiny is needed there. What is it? Why is it? Does it need to be broadcast so many times each week? The crucial question is how many classical-music-only people does it draw in as it appears to be an exercise in holding everybody together. I very much doubt that it achieves it.

I've always hesitated to pass comment on Late Junction because I know it has particular features that are appreciated, including by Radio 3's, erm, 'more traditional' audience. BUT: it was started before 6 Music came on the scene, and it was then said to be providing a platform for various styles of music which would seldom be heard elsewhere.

I suspect the crossover between 6 Music and Late Junction is relatively large, and between Late Junction and the rest of Radio 3 relatively small. It was originally launched as part of the strategy to introduce a variety of non classical styles of music in the hope of pulling in new listeners (which it did, just as Andy Kershaw brought a new audience). The virtuous hope of then attracting them to classical music always seemed like a disingenuous pretext which no one really believed in. At least even RW saw the flaws in having seven hours of Late Junction every week, and cut it back.

[doversoul1]

With a push of the swings and a spin of the roundabouts, the Saturday lunchtime early music concert has been moved to late on Sunday night, and nobody appears to have noticed or complained! Woosh!!

I’ve just found this thread, and read this bit.

In addition to The Early Music Show on Sunday afternoons, the schedule changes see the introduction of a new programme, Early Music Late, which will follow Drama on 3. From 20 September Simon Heighes and Elin Manahan Thomas will showcase some of the best early music performances from around Europe, beginning with highlights of a concert given by Les Muffatti at the Liege Festival in Belgium.

Addition to What? and two early music programmes on one day? I wouldn’t ask for more programmes but it would have been good to have one each on two days, AS IT IS now. What is coming to the current time (1.00pm Saturday) that is so important that one of only two hours of early music has to be pushed out?

I don’t know Elin Manahan Thomas as a presenter but she was, when I heard her, a good announcer. Simon Heighes will be a most welcome choice, but will they be presenting alternatively or is it going to be ‘Thank you for joining Us’ programme?

[ed.] Current Saturday Lunchtime Concert has proved to be an excellent programme; the music is often well off the beaten track repertoire and it is presented by some of the best presenters on Radio 3. Only thing that would have improved the programme is to broadcast the whole concerts. Whilst Simon Heighes is an excellent early music critic/reviewer, when I think about it, I am not sure if he is the right person to ‘present’ a concert programme. Still, we’ll see.

[french frank]

Addition to What?

The Early Music Show

and two early music programmes on one day? I wouldn’t ask for more programmes but it would have been good to have one each on two days, AS IT IS now. What is coming to the current time (1.00pm Saturday) that is so important that one of only two hours of early music has to be pushed out?

I need to study the schedule here to see exactly how this is being done. Is 1pm Saturday to be Saturday Classics?

I don’t know Elin Manahan Thomas as a presenter but she was, when I heard her, a good announcer. Simon Heighes will be a most welcome choice, but will they be presenting alternatively or is it going to be ‘Thank you for joining Us’ programme?

Nearest thing to CB, I suppose, being a Baroque specialist soprano I'd guess it's one of R3's Cox and Box arrangements, as for Breakfast, Essential Classics, In Tune &c. TEMS started out at CB and Andrew Manze.

[Lat-Literal]

Partly because 19th/early 20th tend to dominate anyway, particularly in live concerts. I would be content with something of a better balance towards British composers in an overall scheme. And less of John Williams/Eric Whitacre & co.

I've always hesitated to pass comment on Late Junction because I know it has particular features that are appreciated, including by Radio 3's, erm, 'more traditional' audience. BUT: it was started before 6 Music came on the scene, and it was then said to be providing a platform for various styles of music which would seldom be heard elsewhere.

I suspect the crossover between 6 Music and Late Junction is relatively large, and between Late Junction and the rest of Radio 3 relatively small. It was originally launched as part of the strategy to introduce a variety of non classical styles of music in the hope of pulling in new listeners (which it did, just as Andy Kershaw brought a new audience). The virtuous hope of then attracting them to classical music always seemed like a disingenuous pretext which no one really believed in. At least even RW saw the flaws in having seven hours of Late Junction every week, and cut it back.

Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

I have been saving my Whitacre, Tavener, Will Todd, Part, Gorecki, Glass and Camilo for fairly obvious reasons but I can't guarantee they won't be making an appearance.

It is all in the contexts of course. If placed alongside a rare bit of Orlando Gibbons or Stockhausen rather than the 1812 and Bolero most people probably won't even notice.

I welcome your comments on British composers. As per the point I made about era etc, I feel that the main reason why there isn't such a programme is that the policy emanates from the one established for the Third Programme in the 1950s if not the 1940s. I don't know who it was exactly but it was probably more Grisewood than Graves. The emphasis has always been on the here and now - no pun intended - and with a very clear definition of what that means. The music I have mentioned is popular but it has not always been forward looking even in its time. And not being forward looking meant that much of the stuff that was current then was often placed in the past. Consequently, it remains an easier option to sprinkle it all across the programmes. One problem is that some of us don't want to hear Viennese waltzes either side of it and there do seem to be an awful lot of those.

Your comments on "Late Junction" are informative and I fully accept what you say. I suppose my feeling is that there is a lot of instinct around "Late Junction" and not a lot of readily available statistics. If we had more of the latter, we would probably find that our instincts were spot on although Marc Riley and even Gideon to R3 is a very big stretch.

[doversoul1]

The Early Music Show

I need to study the schedule here to see exactly how this is being done. Is 1pm Saturday to be Saturday Classics?

Nearest thing to CB, I suppose, being a Baroque specialist soprano I'd guess it's one of R3's Cox and Box arrangements, as for Breakfast, Essential Classics, In Tune &c. TEMS started out at CB and Andrew Manze.

As Andrew points out, this is an existing programme moved out of daytime. Also, this is not a subject/research based programme as the Early Music show is. It is, as Saturday Lunchtime Concert is now, a concert programme and concerts come fully formed for which the last thing we need is two people, no matter how knowledgeable they may be, talking between the works played. However, as I said above, we’ll see.

[johncorrigan]

I suspect the crossover between 6 Music and Late Junction is relatively large, and between Late Junction and the rest of Radio 3 relatively small. It was originally launched as part of the strategy to introduce a variety of non classical styles of music in the hope of pulling in new listeners (which it did, just as Andy Kershaw brought a new audience).

As someone who flits between 3 and 6 I would say there is very little cross-over between LJ and anything that 6 Music puts on. There is a bit more between Wo3 and 6 but even there the material is spread through the schedules on 6 rather than being contained in one programme (though certainly a bit more on Cerys Matthews' Sunday programme).

My biggest disappointment is the move to 4pm of JRR. JRR has long provided solace on a Saturday afternoon from the poor football results that my team suffer on an all to regular basis.

With a push of the swings and a spin of the roundabouts, the Saturday lunchtime early music concert has been moved to late on Sunday night, and nobody appears to have noticed or complained! Woosh!!

Well, if the late lamented, by me anyway, World Routes is anything to go by it'll be the late early music concert pretty soon.