Review of Radio 3

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Other Radio 3 programmes should appeal more to other people, so that the whole population can be served across all programming on the six music networks.

If Breakfast, Morning on 3, etc. aren't succeeding in reaching other listeners, then they should be tweaked and marketed until they do better achieve that aim.

Except that all the "tweaking and marketing" hasn't achieved this - it has had exactly the opposite effect. The tweaking and marketing has resulted in even fewer listeners, making R3 less popular and more of a minority station.

There is no equitable reason why they should revert to serving the same limited audience as CD Review and Live in Concert in an environment of just six BBC music networks to serve the entire UK population.

Yes there is. This "limited audience" is larger than that listening to the tweaked and marketed content. It is inequitable that the larger audience should be discouraged from listening for the sake of a mythical public existing only in the imaginations (to use the most charitable vocabulary) of the marketers and tweakers.

This post presents my genuine view and is not intended to be provocative for the purpose of mere annoyance.

Ditto.

[PJPJ]

The BBC Trust has stated (on Feedback) that the BBC should offer some music to appeal to everyone across the programming on its portfolio of six national music networks.

And what exactly does that mean?

[Sir Velo]

The BBC Trust has stated (on Feedback) that the BBC should offer some music to appeal to everyone across the programming on its portfolio of six national music networks.

So, it's fine if people say they used to listen to Radio 3 much more but now only listen to CD Review and some selected Live Concerts, because they are receiving some music appropriate to them.

Other Radio 3 programmes should appeal more to other people, so that the whole population can be served across all programming on the six music networks.

Not sure it means what you think it does. I take it to mean that everyone should find something to interest them on at least one of the channels; not that each channel should provide something that will appeal to everyone. After all, there is nothing that interests me on 1,2, 5 or 6 and I don't see any evidence of the BBC doing anything to rectify that either!

Quite why R3 should be the dumping ground for every other uncatered for interest defeats me. To my mind, world music for example would sit a hell of a lot better on R1 or 2 where its natural constituency resides. In fact, look at this forum: how many of those who post on World Music subjects contribute to the classical forums? Practically zilch.

What you seem to overlook is that programmes such as Discovering Music; CD Review; Hear and Now; COTW represent the high water mark (or at least did) of broadcasting, with an emphasis on quality over cheap gimmicks. This is why they should be maintained and indeed have their representation increased in the schedules. Indeed, a more intellectually rigorous approach would see listener numbers increase in their droves as the audience which has been driven away by the populist agenda returns to enjoy more satisfying fare. CFM is a more than adequate station for those who want easy listening background "classic" wallpaper.

[french frank]

So, I think I now understand about analysing audience segmentation and then designing your service so as to appeal to as many of those segments at once as possible.

But, you are saying that Radio 3 is a service which (from a music point of view) should have something that appeals to everyone. Why? Radio 1Xtra doesn't, the Asian Network doesn't (and it would be a nonsense if it did), Radio 1 doesn't, 6 Music doesn't, Radio 2 doesn't. Each has a central purpose which extends over the bulk of its airtime.

It's ridiculous for the majority of Radio 3's daytime programming to be targeted at making classical music 'accessible' for those with 'little knowledge" of the subject - since that is what Classic FM is supposed to do. And although you have tried to pooh-pooh that as if it 'doesn't matter' what Classic FM does, Radio 3 is not supposed to impact on an existing commercial service.

"
Anyone moved from Classic FM to Radio 3?
(15 Posts)
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WingDefence Tue 09-Oct-12 16:42:22

I listen to the radio while I work (I work from home) and have always listened to Classic FM.

Recently I've found the adverts completely grating (so have to break from my work to mute the radio when particularly awful ones come on) and the fact that the same pieces of music are played over and over, especially Downton-bloody-Abbey which is the worst piece of soundtrack music ever and then the fact that Jamie Crick didn't play my request yesterday so this afternoon I switched to Radio 3.

As the pieces this afternoon were full length, I found that it really did melt into the background, in a good way, and the lack of adverts was very refreshing.

Has anyone else made the leap? Or have you perhaps swapped but missed the bitesized chunks of recognisable music and have moved back?

For Radio 3 fans, are there any presenters or 'shows' that I need to make sure I keep half an ear out for? "

"Radio 3 does bite size in its breakfast programme 6.30 to 9. Then it carries on in a similar vein but not quite as bite sized in Essential Classics 9 to 12. Then you have composer of the week followed by a lunchtime concert of chamber music at 1. The afternoon is all specially recorded full length stuff. At 4.30 it goes bit sized again for In Tune which also has live guests and then the evening concert at 7.30 is usually an orchestral concert and always live from somewhere in the UK. So quite a mixture depending on time of day."

"I think the schedule sounds great as you've described it. I feel like I've gone shopping and bought something really new and exciting and it's only a change in radio station smile"

"Radio 3 is really not as high brow as some imagine. It had lots of variety depending on what you listen to. I can't bear the adverts and repeated 'light excerpts' on Classic FM and find it patronising. You are much better off with Radio 3 or you can switch over to 'Soul Music' on a Sunday on Radio 4 (one of the best programmes on radio...)"

"Our office has moved over to Radio 3, although not everyone is enjoying the piano season! "

"I do like Classic FM's choice of music, but I'm close to giving up and switching to BBC Radio 3 (which is fine until the put on screeching opera or atonal ever-so-highbrow-I-know-I-should-appreciate music) as I cannot stomach the relentless ads for will-writing/ cancer care and dental implants. I accept the advertising execs know their demographic, but if you are getting older, is that really want you want to hear? Reminders of your imminent decrepitude?

Is there anywhere else I can turn, or do I resort to interrupting my writing flow to change CDs on my music system?"

"Can you not listen to the slightly lighter R3 programmes on ListenAgain ? Breakfast on Three and through the night and so on, where no-one ever plays Schoenberg's Seventeenth Organ Concerto for hours on end?"

"Ah thanks GrendelsMum you see, I don't know the programmes well enough to know what to look for. I'll try those and report back.

(Secretly wondering if you've made up that delightful sounding Schoenberg grin)"

"I'm listening to this morning's Essential Classics, which looks great. I'm looking forward to West Side Story later in the programme. Thanks again GrendelsMum."

"Breakfast is good for cheery background listening, Essential classics is good, Through the Night is good, In Tune is enjoyable but has too much talking for us, I love the Early Music Show but its fairly talky and not everyone likes early music, and Late Junction is great if someone has their finger on the fast-forward button and can skip over anything that gets too much (or back if there was something really good)!"

"Quick me too. When r3 gets screechy I sometimes click on classic fm then get driven away by the ads."



And so on ...

[Honoured Guest]

But, you are saying that Radio 3 is a service which (from a music point of view) should have something that appeals to everyone. Why?

Just to clarify what I said [in #60].

I did not say that some music output on Radio3 should appeal to everyone, or that everyone should find something of personal appeal on Radio 3.

I first noted that the BBC Trust has said that the BBC's portfolio of six national music radio networks should provide something of appeal to everyone.

I then commented that it is unreasonable to expect the entirety of Radio 3's classical music output to appeal to one small set of people (including yourself)!

[johnb]

Honoured Guest,

Please forgive me for asking what might be thought as a provocative question (though it isn't intended as such) but do you work for the BBC or are you connected to them in some way?

I ask because very often, though not always, you seem to take the 'party line'.

Just curious.

[Sir Velo]

Just to clarify what I said.

I did not say that some music output on Radio3 should appeal to everyone, or that everyone should find something of personal appeal on Radio 3.

I first noted that the BBC Trust has said that the BBC's portfolio of six national music radio networks should provide something of appeal to everyone.

I then commented that it is unreasonable to expect the entirety of Radio 3's classical music output to appeal to one small set of people (including yourself)!

Ok - although your wording was ambiguous. Now can you answer the other points made in response to your earlier post!

[Honoured Guest]

Responding to johnb #66:

No, never worked for the BBC (or in arts or media) or connected to them. But I am fascinated by broadcasting (by some quirk of personality) and also by classical (and other) music, although I clearly have a very different relationship with it than do many other posters on this board.

[Bryn]

Honoured Guest,

Please forgive me for asking what might be thought as a provocative question (though it isn't intended as such) but do you work for the BBC or are you connected to them in some way?

I ask because very often, though not always, you seem to take the 'party line'.

Just curious.

I think it quite likely that if BBC Radio 3 'insiders' did post here, under pseudonyms of course, they would not do so to support the Radio 3 'party line'. Quite to opposite, indeed, if private comments I have been privy to are anything to go by.

[Honoured Guest]

Quite why R3 should be the dumping ground for every other uncatered for interest defeats me. To my mind, world music for example would sit a hell of a lot better on R1 or 2 where its natural constituency resides. In fact, look at this forum: how many of those who post on World Music subjects contribute to the classical forums? Practically zilch.

World music on BBC network radio is a good topic for submission to the review, I agree. It's such a portmanteau term. 1Xtra, 6music and the Asian network are all natural homes for the areas of world music which they programme, as well as R1 and R2. Non-western classical musics were presented on R3 long before "world music" was invented. I think that the current Radio 3 world music output suits the network, although World Routes is a significant loss and I'd personally like more scheduled longer-length performances, longer than the brief live sessions incorporated in World on 3, similar to the hour-long recording of Abida Parveen from Manchester International Festival broadcast just before New Year.

I think that the size of overlap of the classical and world music audiences on Radio 3 is a red herring.

[Serial_Apologist]

Just to clarify what I said.

I did not say that some music output on Radio3 should appeal to everyone, or that everyone should find something of personal appeal on Radio 3.

So what?

I first noted that the BBC Trust has said that the BBC's portfolio of six national music radio networks should provide something of appeal to everyone.

And the weatherman said there would be showers and sunny intervals today

I then commented that it is unreasonable to expect the entirety of Radio 3's classical music output to appeal to one small set of people (including yourself)!

Who disagrees here? It's how the Corporation is attracting new listeners (or not) while dumping its existing audience that is the issue.

You aren't putting yourself across at all well, you know. Or do you actually HAVE anything to put across?

[Honoured Guest]

In reply to Serial Apologist #71, I was responding to french frank who had misunderstood my previous post, but it might have been wiser of me to ignore her misrepresentation because my original post is still up for anyone to read.

[Serial_Apologist]

In reply to Serial Apologist #71, I was responding to french frank who had misunderstood my previous post, but it might have been wiser of me to ignore her misrepresentation because my original post is still up for anyone to read.

Then you should have boxed her original comment above or below your reponse.

You really can't expect respectiful dialogue unless you express your point of view clearly and concretely, especially if you dismiss practically else's views.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

it is unreasonable for any bbc radio station to play music that appeals to a large number of people or a number of large people or a small number of people or a number of small people they should play music that is important to our society, culture and cognition and has relevance for our lives and personal development including music we may never hear again and only hear for the first time ... numbers of people is a criteria for selling advertising ... it is a poor criteria for uniquely or mainly evaluating the value for money for the license fee

market based broadcasting devolves to the same stuff endlessly listed and played to secure ears for ads .... the market is very poor at innovation, more stultifying than surprising ... in both science technology and the arts sponsorship is vital for innovation else we would not have had Becket on the radio eh ... or Stoppard

it was the concentration on numbers of people that led to the mistaken effort to close R6 and the continuing pointlessness on bbc radio of R1 &c ...

[french frank]

Trying again: if it is possible for one station to be devoted 24/7 to listeners who are fans of the less mainstream popular music, and another to be devoted to urban music, and a third to be devoted to contemporary charts hits, and a fourth to be devoted to contemporary popular Asian music, why would it be unreasonable for a fifth station to be devoted 24/7 to fans of classical music?

In the event, FoR3 is not proposing that Radio 3 should be devoted exclusively, 24/7, to fans of classical music but that it should also cater for fans of jazz and of 'world music', giving it its 1987 meaning. The proviso being (for us) that none of it is tweaked to suit people with little knowledge of these kinds of music. On the contrary, it should all be rather more advanced to satisfy the more demanding existing fans of these musics. In addition, Radio 3 should cover performance of the spoken arts and discussion of the arts in general. That is already taking the station remit much wider than that of the music-only stations.

We also hold that each one of these genres should be for the minority audience which has a special interest in them: ergo it follows that the classical music output - like the output for all the other genres - should in its near entirety be more focused on that small demanding audience. Across the whole of BBC Radio there are various other stations which have a smattering of jazz, world and classical music tweaked for the broader audience, just as Radio 4's drama aims to appeal to a larger audience for radio plays.

As it is, those who have the greatest interest in classical music are the ones who have only a handful of programmes which meet their standards. That is what seems unreasonable to us when, as you have hinted, the BBC has a large portfolio of national music stations, none of which (aside from Radio 3) has any serious classical music programming.

And, yes, if I do not misunderstand and misrepresent you, we also would like to see the world music output enlarged by the introduction of other long-format global music traditions, accompanied (we would add) by specialist discussion.