Review of Radio 3

[french frank]

continual interference ever since from BBC types who think it is a radio station ....

Just on that point alone:

'"Wright must, in any case, be doing something right - the Sony award certainly suggests so. The win was, he says, helpful in "reminding our audience that we are just another radio station" - a sign perhaps that he thinks that many Radio 3 listeners see themselves as a peg or two above devotees of other stations.'

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2009/jul/27/interview-roger-wright-bbc-radio3

(Here, be warned, you will read that a vociferous group called Friends of Radio 3 wants to get rid of jazz and world music - but there are other examples of the late controller's well-rehearsed anecdotes, trotted out regularly to illustrate how 'incredibly' [don't be too credulous] lunatic Radio 3 listeners are ... )

[amateur51]

Well, unbeknown to anyone when they responded, Radio 3 management submitted its own proposals - as part of the review - to continue with its strategy of making the station more 'accessible and welcoming to new listeners'. After considering all the evidence with its blind eye, the Trust report gave management the go-ahead. RadioCentre, for one, wrote to the BBC Chairman to express its disappointment with the decision, and criticised the fact that the proposals weren't published (and still haven't been) so that the public could be consulted on them. The first anyone knew of their existence was when the Trust published its report, having already accepted them.

We and RadioCentre both made requests under the Freedom of Information Act for the proposals to be published (i.e. what were the future plans for Radio 3?) but the request was refused by the BBC on the grounds that it was exempt information, since it related to 'programming'.

Many thanks for this french frank

Is Private Eye aware of this? I think they should be told.

And what would Steve Hewlett say on The Media Show (R4)

[aeolium]

There may be no savings between transmitting Concert A live and recording the same concert for later broadcast - but I mentioned some of the complete EBU concerts which are included in TTN. I don't know whether the contract is that the concerts are made available on condition that they're used for TTN only - and thus heard in many other countries. But there might also be 'BBC Legends' material. I also rather liked the idea of the 'special evenings' devoted to a particular subject (like the Sviatoslav Richter event): that seems to be more manageable than three weeks Total Immersion. It would make a more balanced schedule in my view, but the question is whether R3 listeners feel Live in Concert seven times weekly is worth maintaining/fighting for, if necessary.

I might well get back into the habit of listening to the Sunday play if it were returned to the 8pm slot, rather than being displaced by the live concert ... but that's only a personal view and is of no special importance

I'm with johnb re getting back to the "live" and "as live" mix of evening concerts. I don't mind listening to a concert recorded for later broadcast at all, provided it is broadcast in its entirety (including encores if applicable) - the chopping up of recorded concerts is what I hate about the current lunchtime broadcasts (Wigmore excepted). I thought the pre-2007 setup of weekday evening concerts, with Opera on 3 on Saturday and Drama on 3 on Sunday was fine, though one improvement for me with the recently revised schedule is the more frequent appearance of Baroque, chamber music and piano recitals in the evening rather than an almost unvarying orchestral provision. I also liked the themed evenings, but no more Total Immersion please!!

Thinking about programming across the year as a whole, I think it is a sad reflection that it was Gillian Moore at the South Bank who mounted the Rest Is Noise festival showcasing C20 music set in the context of the arts as a whole and that that was not an initiative of R3. It was the kind of large-scale educational and cultural project bringing a lot of modern music (critically, putting it in context) to a wide audience - and very successfully, by all accounts - which the BBC could and should be doing. It is not at all the same as Total Immersion, since a lot of other programming can be going on at the same time, but it is just what a broadcasting station devoted to the arts should be doing.

[amateur51]

I'm with johnb re getting back to the "live" and "as live" mix of evening concerts. I don't mind listening to a concert recorded for later broadcast at all, provided it is broadcast in its entirety (including encores if applicable) - the chopping up of recorded concerts is what I hate about the current lunchtime broadcasts (Wigmore excepted). I thought the pre-2007 setup of weekday evening concerts, with Opera on 3 on Saturday and Drama on 3 on Sunday was fine, though one improvement for me with the recently revised schedule is the more frequent appearance of Baroque, chamber music and piano recitals in the evening rather than an almost unvarying orchestral provision. I also liked the themed evenings, but no more Total Immersion please!!

Thinking about programming across the year as a whole, I think it is a sad reflection that it was Gillian Moore at the South Bank who mounted the Rest Is Noise festival showcasing C20 music set in the context of the arts as a whole and that that was not an initiative of R3. It was the kind of large-scale educational and cultural project bringing a lot of modern music (critically, putting it in context) to a wide audience - and very successfully, by all accounts - which the BBC could and should be doing. It is not at all the same as Total Immersion, since a lot of other programming can be going on at the same time, but it is just what a broadcasting station devoted to the arts should be doing.

Your capaciity both to read my mind and to express it so much better than I ever could never ceases to amaze me, aeolium.

Many thanks

[Roslynmuse]

I'm with johnb, aeolium and amateur51 on this, with flexibility a key word. I too have a deep dislike of the chopped up 'mix-and-match' lunchtime and afternoon programmes, and would happily do without Total Immersion events.

Can we have calm, informed, knowledgeable presentation, too; no 'personalities' please. Surely savings to be made there...

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Can we just clarify what we mean by "Total Immersion", which I understand to mean those weekends at the South Bank where the work of a single living composer is showcased through concerts and talks; the concerts recorded by the Beeb and broadcast amongst the regular schedules over the next few weeks. I think these are excellent events and the amongst best things that R3 does. (They obviously agree, as they've pulled the plug on them )

What I hope aeolie and Roslyn are referring to are the "Composerthons", where the schedules are suspended whilst every last semiquaver that a single composer wrote is broadcast over a week or more. Gimmicky, desperate and contemptible programming from the imagination-deficit committee.

[Roslynmuse]

Can we just clarify what we mean by "Total Immersion", which I understand to mean those weekends at the South Bank where the work of a single living composer is showcased through concerts and talks; the concerts recorded by the Beeb and broadcast amongst the regular schedules over the next few weeks. I think these are excellent events and the amongst best things that R3 does. (They obviously agree, as they've pulled the plug on them )

What I hope aeolie and Roslyn are referring to are the "Composerthons", where the schedules are suspended whilst every last semiquaver that a single composer wrote is broadcast over a week or more. Gimmicky, desperate and contemptible programming from the imagination-deficit committee.

Indeed - it was the Composerthon-type event that I thought (lazily!) I was referring to. The South Bank events have, over the years, given much pleasure - although I sense there is less commitment to broadcast these complete (ironically) than in the past. Is that perception correct?

[Roslynmuse]

Indeed - it was the Composerthon-type event that I thought (lazily!) I was referring to. The South Bank events have, over the years, given much pleasure - although I sense there is less commitment to broadcast these complete (ironically) than in the past. Is that perception correct?

Ah, just re-read FHG's post about the Beeb pulling the plug...

More haste, less speed, Ros. (As I thought the other day listening to Tom Service)

[french frank]

If anyone does disagree with the (currently) prevailing view, do please say so. The essential question is whether the 2011 change to a live concert broadcast every night is something to be defended, or whether scheduling flexibility to allow 'as live' recordings and special evening events is preferable.

My hunch is that if Radio 3 management promotes the 'live every night' and Total Immersion events as being part of the 'high quality, distinctive' programming of Radio 3 as against Classic FM, no one at the BBC will question whether they are 'good things' or not. Obviously, there will be some listeners who greatly appreciate both but they may not be in the majority.

[french frank]

What I hope aeolie and Roslyn are referring to are the "Composerthons", where the schedules are suspended whilst every last semiquaver that a single composer wrote is broadcast over a week or more. Gimmicky, desperate and contemptible programming from the imagination-deficit committee.

Having introduced the term Total Immersion in this thread, I would confirm that I meant Radio 3's 'clear the schedules for up to three weeks' promotions.

[Serial_Apologist]

If anyone does disagree with the (currently) prevailing view, do please say so. The essential question is whether the 2011 change to a live concert broadcast every night is something to be defended, or whether scheduling flexibility to allow 'as live' recordings and special evening events is preferable.

I would have thought there were much more important things to consider on behalf of a Radio 3 review.

[amateur51]

I'm with johnb, aeolium and amateur51 on this, with flexibility a key word. I too have a deep dislike of the chopped up 'mix-and-match' lunchtime and afternoon programmes, and would happily do without Total Immersion events.

Can we have calm, informed, knowledgeable presentation, too; no 'personalities' please. Surely savings to be made there...

And no more poor Rob Cowan trying to be spontaneous for a whole week with oft-times reluctant guests of whom he knows not what - Rob is a chatty encyclopaedia of recorded music, an enthusiastt, nay an eccentric - please stop trying to make him into Michael Parkinson play to people's strengths rather than forcing them into an unnatural format to suit the network.

[johnb]

Total Immersion events:
forgive me if I am mistaken but when I last looked at one that I was interested in I got the impression that, rather than the concerts being broadcast whole, they were chopped up and the odd piece or two inserted into the daily Afternoon programmes spread over a week or two. If R3 are going to promote Total Immersion events (and I am certainly not against that) at least they should have the courage of their convictions and broadcast the concerts whole, rather than slipping odd pieces into the afternoon programmes, as if they hope that nobody will notice them.

Special Evenings:

I also rather liked the idea of the 'special evenings' devoted to a particular subject (like the Sviatoslav Richter event)

I completely agree about special evenings but they need to be well done if they are done at all. I fear that R3 has lost the ability to create worthwhile events of this type. Back in 2003 there was a Prokofiev evening that was outstandingly good - it was obvious that a lot of thought had gone into the event and Gerald McBurney played a major part in the discussions. Since then I have the impression that such evenings (when they have occurred) have often been slung together cheaply, without much care or effort and sometime they have been rather dispiriting affairs.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

If anyone does disagree with the (currently) prevailing view, do please say so. The essential question is whether the 2011 change to a live concert broadcast every night is something to be defended, or whether scheduling flexibility to allow 'as live' recordings and special evening events is preferable.

My hunch is that if Radio 3 management promotes the 'live every night' and Total Immersion events as being part of the 'high quality, distinctive' programming of Radio 3 as against Classic FM, no one at the BBC will question whether they are 'good things' or not. Obviously, there will be some listeners who greatly appreciate both but they may not be in the majority.

I have no strong preference either way, but it does occur to me that, if evening broadcasts are all to be "Live Only" events, then concerts from the Edinburgh Festival will all have to be confined to Afternoon on 3 - which seems rather to "demote" them.

[french frank]

I would have thought there were much more important things to consider on behalf of a Radio 3 review.

I've just opened a new 'category' - people can start new threads, ask questions - anything.

http://www.for3.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?102-R3-BBC-TRust-Review-2014