Whither the Proms?

[Old Grumpy]

Might well be but "This article is for subscribers only".

There are ways and means I understand:

https://www.for3.org/forums/forum/classical-forum/talking-about-music/15816-john-eliot-gardiner-the-pros-and-cons?p=1315629#post1315629

[french frank]

"It is, fundamentally, a festival of classical music"

Why does he use the word 'fundamentally', I wonder. (That was the only bit I could read)

[DracoM]

'Wither the Proms' - yes indeed.
A more than rubbish season IMO.

[LMcD]

'Wither the Proms' - yes indeed.
A more than rubbish season IMO.

There have been some kind words but also a number of pretty withering comments.

[Barbirollians]

Last season 2023 was very good - this has been a pretty ordinary affair.

[french frank]

There have been some kind words but also a number of pretty withering comments.

The obvious point to make is that there will be many people who will praise the Proms precisely for the "rubbish" concerts (just as people really enjoy the "sub-standard" programming on R3). Populism is popular.

[smittims]

...and those are the letters and messages that tend to get prominence, as with those letters to the Radio Times saying how much they enjoy the new, dumbed-down Radio 3.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Contrary to these critical comments putting together the Hallé Mahler 5, War Requiem , the LPO Busoni, NYO Mahler 1 , London Symphony , Coote’s Kinderototenleider , last nights Shani concert , the St John passion I think it has been a very good Proms season with the less hyped orchestras often outshining the big names.
I’ve listened to just about every classical concert and probably twice to the first 20 or so. The Brabbins London Symphony I’ve now heard 3 times and it was well worth it !

[oddoneout]

'Wither the Proms' - yes indeed.
A more than rubbish season IMO.

The Proms continues to open its doors to leading lights of modern pop,

From the Guardian TV Tonight round up.
This could just as well have gone as reply to FFs "populism is popular".

[french frank]

I had got round to feeling that, as a festival, the Proms doesn't gain a lot by becoming bigger and bigger every season. If it does expand, and if that additional time is spent on non-classical content, so be it. The argument for having a smaller classical-focused (+jazz) Proms is that - although the finances are all a bit opaque - it seems that the Proms deficit comes out of R3's budget. That is the best argument for not expanding it beyond the mainly classical. I would say "beyond the scope of the R3 remit", but as that seems to expand within the 24/7 broadcasting hours, it's hard to define exactly what the "scope" of R3 is in recent times. But it's not hard to see what/who misses out.

[DracoM]

[LMcD]

I had got round to feeling that, as a festival, the Proms doesn't gain a lot by becoming bigger and bigger every season. If it does expand, and if that additional time is spent on non-classical content, so be it. The argument for having a smaller classical-focused (+jazz) Proms is that - although the finances are all a bit opaque - it seems that the Proms deficit comes out of R3's budget. That is the best argument for not expanding it beyond the mainly classical. I would say "beyond the scope of the R3 remit", but as that seems to expand within the 24/7 broadcasting hours, it's hard to define exactly what the "scope" of R3 is in recent times. But it's not hard to see what/who misses out.

[alywin]

I don't know if it's a barometer of anything, but interest in the Proms on these boards has become pretty minimal these days. I've been to about 8 or 9 Proms this season, and most have been quite good, but there's something missing about the experience. Whether it's the ticketing system they use, which encourages the more casual concert-goer, I don't know. Maybe I've changed and the Proms have remained mostly the same.

Regulars the other night were complaining about how much the experience has deteriorated in recent years. Up in the Gallery, it's noticeable that many people no longer turn up until shortly before the performance starts, so the interaction between audience members doesn't happen so much any more. It's a shame. I think the ticketing system has a lot to answer for, too: it's basically pretty much log on for half-past ten (if you're not a season ticket holder) or be prepared not to get in. So if I'm busy, such as working, at 10.30 I tend not to even try to book any more. The inability to pay on the door has made things a lot worse for people who can't, or won't, book online. I'd be interested to know how Prommer attendances have been this year: the Arena and Gallery have both tended to look rather less full than I've noticed in the past, and I wonder if the booking system is partly responsible.

[Darkbloom]

Regulars the other night were complaining about how much the experience has deteriorated in recent years. Up in the Gallery, it's noticeable that many people no longer turn up until shortly before the performance starts, so the interaction between audience members doesn't happen so much any more. It's a shame. I think the ticketing system has a lot to answer for, too: it's basically pretty much log on for half-past ten (if you're not a season ticket holder) or be prepared not to get in. So if I'm busy, such as working, at 10.30 I tend not to even try to book any more. The inability to pay on the door has made things a lot worse for people who can't, or won't, book online. I'd be interested to know how Prommer attendances have been this year: the Arena and Gallery have both tended to look rather less full than I've noticed in the past, and I wonder if the booking system is partly responsible.

I've been promming for nearly 30 years and this season was the first time I haven't been able to get a ticket for the Arena (the Barenboim concert) even though I was in the queue when booking opened. For the really popular concerts it's a gamble whether you're going to get in, when in the old days you'd be guaranteed entry if you got there early enough. The social element was an intrinsic part of the Proms and that's gone now because people don't queue any more and strike up conversations with people. We're always hearing about an epidemic of loneliness these days; well, it's not really surprising when all these measures are taken in the interests of security - although I think it's security theatre in most cases rather than intended to actually catch anyone.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I've been promming for nearly 30 years and this season was the first time I haven't been able to get a ticket for the Arena (the Barenboim concert) even though I was in the queue when booking opened. For the really popular concerts it's a gamble whether you're going to get in, when in the old days you'd be guaranteed entry if you got there early enough. The social element was an intrinsic part of the Proms and that's gone now because people don't queue any more and strike up conversations with people. We're always hearing about an epidemic of loneliness these days; well, it's not really surprising when all these measures are taken in the interests of security - although I think it's security theatre in most cases rather than intended to actually catch anyone.

I wonder how many long term partnerships and marriages had their origins in those queues - hundreds probably . Let’s face it a liking for classical music plus patience and the ability to suffer for art is a good starting point.
Hmm the last bit sounds a bit double edged ..