Whither the Proms?

[Master Jacques]

The phrase ‘Whither the Health Service / Economy / EU ? ‘used to be a in-house joke all purpose title at the Beeb when no one could think of a better one for a programme on the above rather broad topics.

They get it (like most things of course) from Gilbert. Jack Point in this case:

"The Merrie Jestes of Hugh Ambrose, No. 7863. The Poor Wit and the Rich Councillor. A certayne poor wit, being an-hungered, did meet a well-fed councillor. 'Marry, fool,' quoth the councillor, 'whither away?' 'In truth,' said the poor wag, 'in that I have eaten naught these two dayes, I do wither away, and that right rapidly!' The Councillor laughed hugely, and gave him a sausage." Humph! The councillor was easier to please than my new master the Lieutenant. I would like to take post under that councillor. Ah! 'tis but melancholy mumming when poor heart-broken, jilted Jack Point must needs turn to Hugh Ambrose for original light humour!

'Melancholy mumming' seems apt, given this year's rather sodden proms programming, especially as far as art music is concerned. Is there no new music worth commissioning, or playing? Because that - and promoting English music - is what Wood had in mind when instigating the thing.

I'm off to the Czech Philharmonic tomorrow, for my first live Asrael. But the experience, from what Forumites report, is not likely to be world-shaking. Something's gone wrong with audiences, programming, and the whole concept.

[eighthobstruction]

They get it (like most things of course) from Gilbert. Jack Point in this case:



'Melancholy mumming' seems apt, given this year's rather sodden proms programming, especially as far as art music is concerned. Is there no new music worth commissioning, or playing? Because that - and promoting English music - is what Wood had in mind when instigating the thing.

I'm off to the Czech Philharmonic tomorrow, for my first live Asrael. But the experience, from what Forumites report, is not likely to be world-shaking. Something's gone wrong with audiences, programming, and the whole concept.

....yes you are absolutely right....

[Retune]

….. in fact bog standard Henderson….

I assume this means a pompous combination of poor musical judgment and old fashioned prejudice, judging by his comments on female conductors and Isata Kanneh-Mason.

[antongould]

I assume this means a pompous combination of poor musical judgment and old fashioned prejudice, judging by his comments on female conductors and Isata Kanneh-Mason.

indeed IMVVHO

[oddoneout]

It's been interesting following the comments/opinions on this year's Proms. I have found little of interest, and what there is has often been part of a concert the rest of which doesn't interest me. However that's because, as I've come to realise, I am now not that much inclined to the "big" symphonies, nor indeed that much late 19thC onwards repertoire. That used not to be so much the case, but with age has come a preference for Classical and earlier, which R3 is just not addressing anymore("home of classical music" - huh) and the Proms seem to follow that, or so it seems to me. It's also the reason I haven't found the normal R3 evening concerts of much interest for a good while now.
I am pleased for those who have evidently heard much memorable musicmaking, but can't help wondering if the slots now filled by alternative/nonR3/popular/whatever offerings have been at the expense of that earlier repertoire which, as I have mentioned before, I get the feeling no longer has much of a priority with those in charge of R3.

[Serial_Apologist]

It's been interesting following the comments/opinions on this year's Proms. I have found little of interest, and what there is has often been part of a concert the rest of which doesn't interest me. However that's because, as I've come to realise, I am now not that much inclined to the "big" symphonies, nor indeed that much late 19thC onwards repertoire. That used not to be so much the case, but with age has come a preference for Classical and earlier, which R3 is just not addressing anymore("home of classical music" - huh) and the Proms seem to follow that, or so it seems to me. It's also the reason I haven't found the normal R3 evening concerts of much interest for a good while now.
I am pleased for those who have evidently heard much memorable musicmaking, but can't help wondering if the slots now filled by alternative/nonR3/popular/whatever offerings have been at the expense of that earlier repertoire which, as I have mentioned before, I get the feeling no longer has much of a priority with those in charge of R3.

If you're saying what I am myself thinking, maybe we overindulged on the Late Romantic into Early Modernist repertoire while the opportunity was there in fully played out splendour before it was cherry picked for "purple passages" that would become the staple for Radio 3 schedulers, like the "Best Moments" LPs of decimated Wagner and others that got issued back in the 60s like pop compilations. For me the result in terms of taste have been to turn more to chamber music of whatever period rather than back to earlier styles no more offering surprise. I like the greater clarity of line and following where it is going.

[Catinblack]

It's been interesting following the comments/opinions on this year's Proms. I have found little of interest, and what there is has often been part of a concert the rest of which doesn't interest me. However that's because, as I've come to realise, I am now not that much inclined to the "big" symphonies, nor indeed that much late 19thC onwards repertoire. That used not to be so much the case, but with age has come a preference for Classical and earlier, which R3 is just not addressing anymore("home of classical music" - huh) and the Proms seem to follow that, or so it seems to me. It's also the reason I haven't found the normal R3 evening concerts of much interest for a good while now.
I am pleased for those who have evidently heard much memorable musicmaking, but can't help wondering if the slots now filled by alternative/nonR3/popular/whatever offerings have been at the expense of that earlier repertoire which, as I have mentioned before, I get the feeling no longer has much of a priority with those in charge of R3.

Yes, not enough Baroque or Renaissance Music (Gesualdo or Palestrina would sound great in the RAH) but much repertoire ignored from the mid to late 20thC too....Hindemith, Roussel, Roberto Gerhard, Lutoslawski and so on. Some of it very good music for big spaces.
I don't mind some jazz or rock or film scores included in The Proms (even if I don't listen to them!), but "Classical" orchestral repertoire still seems too narrowly chosen.

[Serial_Apologist]

Yes, not enough Baroque or Renaissance Music (Gesualdo or Palestrina would sound great in the RAH) but much repertoire ignored from the mid to late 20thC too....Hindemith, Roussel, Roberto Gerhard, Lutoslawski and so on. Some of it very good music for big spaces.
I don't mind some jazz or rock or film scores included in The Proms (even if I don't listen to them!), but "Classical" orchestral repertoire still seems too narrowly chosen.

Welcome to the forum, Catinblack.

[Retune]

I suppose the Cadogan Hall Proms are gone for good? Some of the chamber repertoire would work better in the smaller space, but they now no longer have the option.

[vinteuil]

I suppose the Cadogan Hall Proms are gone for good? Some of the chamber repertoire would work better in the smaller space, but they now no longer have the option.

... yes, my version of Messiah for solo clavichord never stood a chance in the Albert Hall


.

[Darkbloom]

oh dear thought that might be the case …. to inaccurately summarise - whilst the Proms are a good thing and should continue …. they are being spoilt by the Woke Army at the BBC …. too many female and ethnic composers and too many non classical Proms ….. in fact bog standard Henderson….

He is one of the worst journalists I have ever read. He seems to write the same article over and over again, just changes a few bits here and there. He's so undisciplined he can't keep on topic for more than a paragraph or two before rambling on about one bugbear or another he has. Part of me feels sorry for him, because he sounds like a deeply unpleasant individual covering up for some personal inadequacies by venting about anyone who isn't like him. I remember reading his book of rambling cricket musings called 'That'll Be England Gone' and thinking that this is a distinctly weird personality. There was a part where he was trying to slither around Harold Pinter towards the end of his life that almost brought me out in a rash, it was so creepy and sinister.

[cria]

... yes, my version of Messiah for solo clavichord never stood a chance in the Albert Hall

Was that the one for left index finger & right thumb? The Thunderer said the thumb played a blinder...

[Sir Velo]

Oh my Word.

[french frank]

I suppose the Cadogan Hall Proms are gone for good? Some of the chamber repertoire would work better in the smaller space, but they now no longer have the option.

I heard the Cadogan Prom of The Rite of Spring for four hands there, Simon Crawford-Phillips and Ashley Wass. Riveting. Galvanising.

[Serial_Apologist]

I'm sorry if the Cadogan Proms have finished - the acoustic was far better than the RAH and the atmosphere always welcoming. Up until the time they insisted on advance online booking I used to enjoy just going up there on my bike on the off-chance of being able to pay and get in on the door, even if this meant waiting to see if there were any gaps.