Proms 2024

[pastoralguy]

Did anyone hear the interview with Ian Bostridge on Radio 4 this morning? Apparently he stopped halfway though a Britten song-cycle in Birmingham because people were filming on their mobile phones - he later found out the policy in Birmingham is to allow mobile phone use in the Hall, as it's not expected that 'young people' sit there without their phones on for the duration of the concert!

Can't see Jacko missing an opportunity to attract a younger audience to the Proms like that.

I didn’t hear the Radio4 interview but it was reported on the Radio3 8 O’clock news. Apparently, the CBSO have no intention of changing this ‘policy!’ Apart from the obvious distractions I wonder about infringing copyright on music that is still covered. For instance, if the CBSO played music by John Williams then recording it on a mobile‘phone would surely be an infringement of copyright?

[Ein Heldenleben]

I didn’t hear the Radio4 interview but it was reported on the Radio3 8 O’clock news. Apparently, the CBSO have no intention of changing this ‘policy!’ Apart from the obvious distractions I wonder about infringing copyright on music that is still covered. For instance, if the CBSO played music by John Williams then recording it on a mobile‘phone would surely be an infringement of copyright?

He was singing Les Iluminations by Britten also in copyright as his performance and that of the orchestra. Go back forty years and I had to wait while an orchestra voted on whether to let me film 30 secs for a TV news piece. The orchestra haven’t thought this policy through as they could well be open to a claim from publishers.

[Roger Webb]

................... recording it on a mobile‘phone would surely be an infringement of copyright?

Well the practice is rife in the pop world, and I can't remember a case being brought in that most litigious area of the music business.

[pastoralguy]

He was singing Les Iluminations by Britten also in copyright as his performance and that of the orchestra.

So, hopefully, music publishers are going to raise objections? Or will the CBSO flash up signs to say what can be recorded? Britten no. Beethoven yes!

[pastoralguy]

I’ve always thought that the main reason classical musicians don’t want to be recorded is that it usually sounds dreadful on a mobile ‘phone anyway. I did it once at a rehearsal and the results were very amateur.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Well the practice is rife in the pop world, and I can't remember a case being brought in that most litigious area of the music business.

That’s not strictly true. Broadcasters and publishers spend a lot of time getting copyright material taken down from social media. They don’t go after individuals as it’s too time consuming . Many pop musicians confiscate mobile phones pre -performance mainly because they don’t like looking at a sea of phones.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I’ve always thought that the main reason classical musicians don’t want to be recorded is that it usually sounds dreadful on a mobile ‘phone anyway. I did it once at a rehearsal and the results were very amateur.

Stick a decent mic on it and it’s surprising how good it is …

[Roger Webb]

That’s not strictly true. Broadcasters and publishers spend a lot of time getting copyright material taken down from social media. They don’t go after individuals as it’s too time consuming . Many pop musicians confiscate mobile phones pre -performance mainly because they don’t like looking at a sea of phones.

Yes, I think it's too difficult to squeeze the genie back into the bottle, vis-a-vis individual phone users...and it's true YouTube spends a lot of time taking down unauthorised stuff. Robert Fripp is in the vanguard of artists against phone-filming at live events, and will stop the concert if it gets out of hand.....usually he docks an encore - in extreme cases he doesn't play 21st Century Schizoid Man.......now that would really hammer home the message!

[Ein Heldenleben]

Yes, I think it's too difficult to squeeze the genie back into the bottle, vis-a-vis individual phone users...and it's true YouTube spends a lot of time taking down unauthorised stuff. Robert Fripp is in the vanguard of artists against phone-filming at live events, and will stop the concert if it gets out of hand.....usually he docks an encore - in extreme cases he doesn't play 21st Century Schizoid Man.......now that would really hammer home the message!

Kate Bush banned them completely at her comeback gig. Pastoral Guy is right - they are not much cop in terms of getting decent sound - and the pictures are even worse - so I always wonder why people bother.

[Roger Webb]

Kate Bush banned them completely at her comeback gig. Pastoral Guy is right - they are not much cop in terms of getting decent sound - and the pictures are even worse - so I always wonder why people bother.

Although every concert on the last (is it really the last?!) Genesis tour was posted on YouTube immediately after the concert finished and I think they're still there.....and in startlingly good picture quality (not for a pro like you perhaps!), sound not so - depends where the phone operator was, and whether he was chatting to his neighbour ! I don't think Genesis mind, although YouTube postings of their official recordings are taken down, but this may be a record company policy.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Although every concert on the last (is it really the last?!) Genesis tour was posted on YouTube immediately after the concert finished and I think they're still there.....and in startlingly good picture quality (not for a pro like you perhaps!), sound not so - depends where the phone operator was, and whether he was chatting to his neighbour ! I don't think Genesis mind, although YouTube postings of their official recordings are taken down, but this may be a record company policy.

Yes some of the newer mobile phones are technically almost indistinguishable from broadcast cameras. There’s a BBC series almost entirely shot on an iPhone . Then it’s down to things like whether you can frame a shot , keep it in focus, correctly exposed and steady - not easy for a three hour concert.

[french frank]

Yes, I think it's too difficult to squeeze the genie back into the bottle, vis-a-vis individual phone users.

A question of the type of audience, isn't it. Just checked back to a thread about the 2013 Proms when the late night soloist (from memory, it was Maria João Pires) asked for there to be no applause between the individual Chopin Nocturnes. It was announced in advance by Tom Service which I thought very funny as a few days before he'd been supporting people wanting to applaud between movements if they felt like it. That audience respected the request. But some performers (younger ones possibly?) allegedly welcome any applause when it comes.

[My award for the two worst inventions of modern times: social media and mobile phones because they alter behaviour between human beings for the worse. Actually, the original cell-phones which were just about mobile were ok. Big as the old bus conductors ticket machine.]

[Roger Webb]

Yes some of the newer mobile phones are technically almost indistinguishable from broadcast cameras. There’s a BBC series almost entirely shot on an iPhone ..

I remember a TV programme featuring David Bailey who declared 'posh' cameras, Nikon's, Hasselblads, etc to be 'male jewelry ' and said great photographers of the past had used quite rudimentary equipment eg Cartier- Bresson used a little viewfinder camera. To prove the point he took a model to a photo booth, and after explaining the limitations of the camera, set about modifying it - masking some of the 'flat' lighting, etc. produced an amazing portrait with almost Caravaggio chiaroscuro!

[Roger Webb]

[My award for the two worst inventions of modern times: social media and mobile phones because they alter behaviour between human beings for the worse..]

Or do these things merely reveal a truth that was hidden from view......the Pentathol of our times?!

[Ein Heldenleben]

I remember a TV programme featuring David Bailey who declared 'posh' cameras, Nikon's, Hasselblads, etc to be 'male jewelry ' and said great photographers of the past had used quite rudimentary equipment eg Cartier- Bresson used a little viewfinder camera. To prove the point he took a model to a photo booth, and after explaining the limitations of the camera, set about modifying it - masking some of the 'flat' lighting, etc. produced an amazing portrait with almost Caravaggio chiaroscuro!

C-B used a Leica Rangefinder . An antique 30’s is about £1,000 plus , a more modern several thousand pounds. Then the film and processing costs. In the end it’s all about the photographer.