Proms 2024

[french frank]

Only?

I don't have the temperament to be outraged . A defence mechanism against ridicule.

[Suffolkcoastal]

One of them may even have been on the Last Night, fifth item, first half, Saint-Saëns' Piano Conc. No.5, played by none other than Sir Stephen Hough.....except the duration is given as 11 mins! I would guess the middle movt. only will be played, with it's 'Egyptian' theme. Nice to see Angel Blue in it though - I thought La Rondine the other night pretty good.

As mentioned earlier I wonder if it's Africa op89 being played, piano & orchestra 11 mins long, fits the timing?

[Roger Webb]

The last night has Sir Stephen Hough playing Saint Saens PC 5 - but describes it as 11 minutes - surely in Mr Jackson’s ultimate Classic Fmification he isn’t only playing one movement ?

Yes, the BBC doesn't have much luck re. Sir Stephen/Saint-Saëns as they always claim his set of the complete Saint-Saëns music for piano and orch. for Hyperion is the first complete recording. I emailed the producer once and said it wasn't true as Jean-Phillipe Collard had recorded them with André Previn conducting in 1987 - he replied rather shirtily that the presenter meant to say 'first digital recording', I replied that the Mike Clements (superbly engineered) EMI discs were digital....I got no reply, but the following week someone else trotted out the same story!

Someone suggested the Last Night work might be 'Africa', also piano/orch. and also c.11 mins.

Edit. Yes, sorry Suffolk coastal it was you! I've just listened to the France Musique's concert from Radio France, Passy which included S-S 5 (all of it!) played by Seong-Jin Cho....and now La Mer - very good, poorly engineered as usual!! So I was preoccupied!

[LMcD]

I really hope Barenboim is fit to conduct in August, especially as the BBC is using his name heavily in the marketing, and going big on the West-East Divan because of its mixed Israeli/Palestinian composition. Brahms VC with Mutter, and Schubert 9.

Actually, it's 'West-Eastern' - presumably a reference to Goethe's diwan or collection of lyrical poems.

[duncan]

Fair enough, duncan, but is it really 'the world's greatest classical music festival' when every year less and less of it is classical?

I would much prefer The Proms were (almost) entirely classical music but I can see why this is happening. Classical music in general has become increasingly marginalised from mainstream life in the UK, for reasons far outside the BBC’s control, and The Proms audience appears to be becoming older. Certainly the Arena is a very different place to 30 years ago. It's not unreasonable for the BBC to be concerned by this and they appear to be taking a two pronged approach:

There are various light classical concerts: the CBBC and Doctor Who Proms, Songs and Dances with the Kanneh-Masons, etc. There are more of these than 30 years ago and they are not my thing at all but they sit firmly in the tradition of the original Henry Wood Proms and pop-classical events since the year dot.

More contentiously perhaps there are some that are firmly non-classical including Disco, Nick Drake, and Sarah Vaughan. I’ve never heard of Sam Smith but gather he fits here. I can see Disco and Sarah Vaughan working well in the Albert Hall; penny for Nick Drake’s thoughts. I guess the idea here is to build the audience for The Proms in general. I have no idea how effective this approach is but it seems a popular one amongst marketeers.

A not trivial consideration is that several of the pop-classical and non-classical events are likely to be money-spinners for the Beeb. I can accept a Doctor Who prom or two if they help pay for rarities like the Holst or Zemlinsky. We’d like this not to be necessary but the BBC in general and Radio 3/The Proms in particular are under considerable financial pressure, indirectly through the marginalisation of classical music in contemporary life, and directly through freezing the licence fee. None of us like this but it's a sad reality.

I think "duncan" may wish to close down those with opinions different from his own. Troubling. I think it is just about fine. But nothing like the halcyon Kenyon era! (And not enough Bruckner...)

My opinion is a minority here so if I am trying to close down different opinions I’ve been notably unsuccessful! I just found the predictability of some of the earlier responses amusing. They conflate two separate issues: The first one is the proliferation of pop-classical and non-classical concerts. As above, I don’t like this but I understand, to a degree, why it is happening. The second is the broadening of the spectrum of composers and performers, overall I think this is a good thing.

I’d also like there to be more Bruckner. However, the two concerts with Bruckner symphonies could be very fine indeed.

With luck this will be my 36th consecutive season of Proming. I think it's a decent programme with a lot to look forward to, especially the orchestral blockbusters that can work really well in the hall. I still think it's the best way to spend a summer in London.

[french frank]

Classical music in general has become increasingly marginalised from mainstream life in the UK, for reasons far outside the BBC’s control

My argument with this is that, if true (which I don't dispute), why doggedly pursue a policy which marginalises it still further?

[Alison]

No Haydn at all?

Unusually no Rite of Spring or DSCH 10.

[Ein Heldenleben]

No Haydn at all?

Unusually no Rite of Spring or DSCH 10.

I looked back at the 2004 Proms season. It was almost entirely classical with one very attractive late night jazz swing Prom - Wynton Marsalis. Plenty of new commissions and core repertoire. That’s just 20 years ago - and now look at it. 20 percent non classical. It’s pathetic.

My not so silent protest at the lack of Haydn , one of the very greatest of composers , will be learning one of his piano sonatas.

[Retune]

As mentioned earlier I wonder if it's Africa op89 being played, piano & orchestra 11 mins long, fits the timing?

Hard to believe they'd wheel on Stephen Hough for just 11 minutes (unless he's also involved in the new Carlos Simon piece, and that's only another 7 min). I'd bet it's the timing that's wrong.

[LMcD]

No Haydn at all?

Unusually no Rite of Spring or DSCH 10.

There's no haydn from the way things are changing, I'm afraid.

[makropulos]

Hard to believe they'd wheel on Stephen Hough for just 11 minutes (unless he's also involved in the new Carlos Simon piece, and that's only another 7 min). I'd bet it's the timing that's wrong.

The Proms Guide listing says: Piano Concerto No. 5 – Andante. So it's only the middle movement being played (and that does take about 11 minutes).

[smittims]

Ah, so now it's 'snippets at the Proms - official'. So much for 'the world's greatest classical music festival'.

Thansk, duncan, for your helpful and informative reply. But I cannot agree that the C beebies, Kanneh-Masons and Doctor who events are within the original tradition of the Henry Wood Proms. I've read claims about the early Proms which are quite inaccurate, for instance that their purpose was 'to entertain the masses ' and that they played 'music-hall songs'. This was never the case. Wood disliked the lighter 'part two' items (which were always 'light-classical') and gradually excluded them as soon as he was able to do.

The original purpose of the Proms was to create an audience for classical and 'modern' music (By 'modern' I think Newman meant living composers, and Wagner and Tchakovsky, who were still 'modern' in the 1890s). I think this aim could be said to have been achieved by Wood's death in 1944. It was perhaps then time for a change of emphasis, but in the Sargent era things continued much as before: as late as 1959, with the exception of one concert by the National Youth Orchestra, the whole season was done by four orchestras, all English, and five conductors. Nowadays it seems the BBC want the Proms to reflect what might be called the cultural diversity of Britain today, yet they still call it a 'classical music ' festival. I don't think all these non-classical events need to occupy Prom concert slots or e broadcast on Radio 3. . If the BBC want to put them on , by all means do so, and I hope people will enjoy them, but as a separate venture. No-one expects pop music festivals to iclude classical, so why vice-versa?

[gradus]

I just received the Snape Summer concert listing and was delighted to see Pappano, the LSO and Vilde Frang in the Elgar concerto but not on this occasion also playing at the Albert Hall, a pity as the early booking arrangements at Snape can make it almost impossible to get a ticket when general booking opens; no R3 to the rescue.

[french frank]

If the BBC want to put them on , by all means do so, and I hope people will enjoy them, but as a separate venture.

They started the 'Electric Proms' as companion to the BBC HW Proms. I can't remember whether they lasted more than a single season. [They lasted 5 years]

No-one expects pop music festivals to iclude classical, so why vice-versa?

Charles Hazlewood took one of his bands to Glastonbury in 2016. Supposedly 'successful' but never repeated .

[Ein Heldenleben]

I just received the Snape Summer concert listing and was delighted to see Pappano, the LSO and Vilde Frang in the Elgar concerto but not on this occasion also playing at the Albert Hall, a pity as the early booking arrangements at Snape can make it almost impossible to get a ticket when general booking opens; no R3 to the rescue.

If it helps I go to Suffolk most years and nearly always get last minute returns. The ladies in the box office have a very efficient waiting list system. It does mean though having a mobile with you at all times. I got in last year even though I was way down the list to start with.